Apple going with IMG for years to come ?

[tangey]

IMG (Imagination Technologies) today announced a multi-year, multi-use, multi-technology "extension" to the relationship with the "electronics systems company" that they first signed up and announced in July '07.

http://www.imgtec.com/News/Release/index.asp?NewsID=392

Although it has never been confirmed by IMG, there is a broad consensus that the "electronics systems company" mentioned in July last year is Apple.

IMG state in the PR that a number of new Socs will be developed as a result.

Given that the Jul-07 announcement signalled the licensing of SGX (graphics) and VXD (video), one assumes that todays announcement implies other members of the SGX & VXD families, or indeed IP that has not yet fully been developed. It would therefore be possible that this might include a move into the Apple Laptop/notebook realm. IMG have previously stated that a move into Laptop segment would require a lead partner.

This announcements ties in well with the recent ARM Archeitectural licence announcement from the end of July with a major "handset OEM". The similarity is that ARM has not disclosed the licencee by name, and the tie-in is that Apple has states that the recent purchased of PA semi was to faciliate the design of chips for the ipod and iphone areas.

The above would suggest that Apple has gone with IMG graphics technology even though ARM's Mali technology was probably available at little extra cost given the wide scope of the ARM license.

 

[roninja]

http://www.eetimes.com/news/design/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=210300503

Looks like the most significant deal IMG have achieved to date, and congratulation all involved including those that frequent this board, and like Tangey states above the opportunities are almost endless. I think IMG are looking for a lead partner for certain SGX cores, and I feel Apple might be looking at a whole collection of them.

 

[knux]

Probably the best announcement after announcing intel as their licensees. Now I wonder if Apple is going to come up with a game console. It's not too unlikely.

 

[RudeCurve]

It would be petty sweet if Apple entered the portable gaming sector.

 

[roninja]

Thought they already had with iPhone / iPod touch etc, its the fact that future generations will incorporate SGX and beyond that implies gaming will become even more compelling on the platform.

 

[RudeCurve]

They've only touched the surface with iPhone/iPod, more experimental than full all out portable gaming console. To seriously compete with Sony and Nintendo, Apple needs to have a portable that's competitive price-wise.

Edit: Actually the new iPhone 3G is already competitively priced at just $200.

 

[Ailuros]

It might sound like a dumb question, but why has it to be Apple? I mean most of the interested parties know by know that Apple has used IMG IP for its iPhone, which doesn't justify the re-newed secrecy. Anyone want to take any bets on something like SONY?

 

[roninja]

Well IMG have never publically announced they are in the iPhone for starters, and secondly the PR refers to the first licence deal in July 2007 and we know of the subsequent Samsung manufacturing licence for SGX/VXD. We know of the relationship with Samsung providing the SoC for the 1st and 2nd iPhones. We know about PA Semi. We know about the ARM architectural license again to unnamed company back in July. There is too many coincidences here to think anyone other than Apple being the mystery licencee.

 

[Skrying]

They've only touched the surface with iPhone/iPod, more experimental than full all out portable gaming console. To seriously compete with Sony and Nintendo, Apple needs to have a portable that's competitive price-wise.

Edit: Actually the new iPhone 3G is already competitively priced at just $200.

Except a Sony or Nintendo handheld doesn't come with a extremely expensive two year contract.

 

[RudeCurve]

Except a Sony or Nintendo handheld doesn't come with a extremely expensive two year contract.

True but you can't make phone calls with the SONY or Nintendo portables either. I could see the iPod touch being in direct competition though since the price could be reduced and there's not contract, Apple just needs more games support.

 

[Skrying]

True but you can't make phone calls with the SONY or Nintendo portables either. I could see the iPod touch being in direct competition though since the price could be reduced and there's not contract, Apple just needs more games support.

Eh? Apple would then have to impose a licensing cost per game on developers, it'd have to actual create tons of business ties, etc, etc. The iPhone cost a significant amount of money to manufacturer and the iPod Touch is still not cheap. It just doesn't make sense to me at all for Apple to entire the gaming business in any way. To long to build up and even then they might never succeed.

 

[roninja]

Well by the end of 2008 Apple would have sold 20m units of iPhone and iPod touch since introduction which as a user base is pretty impressive in my mind, and a great opportunity for the likes of EA etc to exploit.

 

[Skrying]

Well by the end of 2008 Apple would have sold 20m units of iPhone and iPod touch since introduction which as a user base is pretty impressive in my mind, and a great opportunity for the likes of EA etc to exploit.

With value marketed games, yes. But good luck selling a $30 game to that market with any type of success. It's very different.

 

[Entropy]

With value marketed games, yes. But good luck selling a $30 game to that market with any type of success. It's very different.

In a way, it is similar to selling a game to the home PC market. Most home PC owners aren't interested in games at all, many however have some interest, and a few are very interested. The iPhone will probably have a much larger percentage of users interested in some kind of gaming but will otherwise have a similar distribution.

When the market is big enough, you can choose which demographic to target. While the iPhone/iPod represents a different market than that of the DS and PSP, there is little doubt that it will eventually be larger. There is room for many winners in that pond, occupying different places in the ecosystem. Also, it doesn't necessarily overlap the pure handheld gaming devices completely, so they could lead healthy lives even in the event of a successful gaming market for the iPhone. However, if Sony or (much less likely) Nintendo try to respond by trying to outdo the iPhone on its own turf, I think they will fail to do so. Spectacularly.

What I find particularly interesting in the press release is the referal to "future" IP: "a new multi-year, multi-use license agreement which gives it access to Imagination’s wide range of current and future POWERVR® graphics and video IP cores." The SGX is pretty impressive in its own right, but having more advanced developments already covered in the deal... Nice. Can't help wondering about what it might be, and what the future might bring.

 

[Skrying]

Huh? The iPhone/iPod Touch market will never reach the size of the Nintendo DS or PSP individually, let alone the last two combined. Not only that but those who care about gaming on their iPhone/Touch and willing to pay beyond $10 is going to be extremely small. It's a device that could have only the extreme end of casual and the games would be less than shallow for the most part. So as a "real" gaming device I don't really see the point of the discussion, it's not going to happen in any meaningful way.

 

[Entropy]

Huh? The iPhone/iPod Touch market will never reach the size of the Nintendo DS or PSP individually, let alone the last two combined. Not only that but those who care about gaming on their iPhone/Touch and willing to pay beyond $10 is going to be extremely small. It's a device that could have only the extreme end of casual and the games would be less than shallow for the most part.

Well, while I respect that this is your opinion, you have to accept that others have no real reason to accept it as fact. Why would people who have the solvency to pay for the phone and the associated subscription plans balk at paying for a game, if the product warrants it? I think that if you look at a typical iPhone user, they are very likely to make more money per year than the average PSP user.....

The last numbers available for the iPhone production rate (800000/week) exceed the combined for the DS and the PSP (roughly 600000/week). And that is without counting the iPod touch. It is also for the iPhone3G alone, a single model where there will likely be a family. Still not available in all countries. And always carried by a single carrier, which in many territories is a disaster in terms of sales volume, where no carrier has a strong dominance, and the consumers rightfully expect to be able to choose between carriers regardless of handset used.

The mobile phone market as a whole is roughly 20 million handsets/week. How it will grow, and how much of that is destined to be iPhone compatible, nobody knows. How attractive would a device that was software compatible with the iPhone but couldn't connect to the traditional carriers (but only via WiFi) be? Again, nobody really knows.

So as a "real" gaming device I don't really see the point of the discussion, it's not going to happen in any meaningful way.

"Real" gaming?

 

[Skrying]

They didn't buy the device for gaming in most cases. When someone purchases a Nintendo DS or Sony PSP the main goal (well, at least for the DS) is for it to be a gaming device. They are prepared to purchase games on a semi-regular basis at an established cost. With an iPhone user you're starting with the established market, then reducing it further for those who will purchase from the store, then further for those who will purchase games, then further for those who will purchase games within a higher cost bracket. This greatly reduces the market and reduces who the games are going to be targeted at.

I think there will games out for the iPhone but I don't think its game software shipments of games costing greater than $20 will ever be worthy of truly caring about.

"Real" gaming is when you have a regular stream of a games that have the scope of say Zelda or Final Fantasy.

 

[roninja]

http://www.phonesreview.co.uk/2008/09/07/apple-iphone-and-ipod-touch-to-gain-9-games-from-ea/

Enjoying your Apple iPhone or Apple iPod Touch? Like playing mobile games? Then you will be pleased to hear that EA has announced they are to bring nine new games to the Apple iPhone and iPod Touch in the near future.

Apart for the much awaited Spore Origins mobile game, Electronic Arts is also bring a juicy line up of games such as, MONOPOLY: Here & Now, The World Edition, SimCity, The Sims 3, Need for Speed Undercover, Lemonade Tycoon.

And if that’s not enough, how about, Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 09, Mahjong, EA Mini Golf, and YAHTZEE Adventures; with this line up it is obvious EA Games is serious about mobile gaming for the Apple iPhone and iPod Touch.

Not bad for starters....

 

[Ailuros]

They didn't buy the device for gaming in most cases. When someone purchases a Nintendo DS or Sony PSP the main goal (well, at least for the DS) is for it to be a gaming device. They are prepared to purchase games on a semi-regular basis at an established cost. With an iPhone user you're starting with the established market, then reducing it further for those who will purchase from the store, then further for those who will purchase games, then further for those who will purchase games within a higher cost bracket. This greatly reduces the market and reduces who the games are going to be targeted at.

I think there will games out for the iPhone but I don't think its game software shipments of games costing greater than $20 will ever be worthy of truly caring about.

"Real" gaming is when you have a regular stream of a games that have the scope of say Zelda or Final Fantasy.

While I tend to agree to most of it, there are still too many unknown factors to make any predictions for the future, since any license agreement rarely means SoC shipments within the next year. First and most important question mark would be here, which IHV is going to provide IP for SONY's next generation handheld. I've no idea who will but I'm as certain as I can be that NVIDIA for one doesn't have that particular deal in its pocket. It could of course also mean that they might have developed something themselves, but in the end it would be a lot easier for them to have one graphics platform both for their high end mobile phones as well as future handhelds.

I wish I knew who's the lucky one (out of the handful remaining graphics providers for handhelds/PDA/mobile devices), yet if it should be IMG after all then the entire picture might also influence other devices with probably more humble graphics performance like iPod and the likes.

Frankly I haven't tried yet to play on an iPod anything, meaning my judgement on handling and/or ergonomics for gaming is non-existant on that one. Pure handheld gaming devices have the advantage that they're a lot easier to handle for games and that's where the point for "true gaming" on small form factor devices actually starts.

However that should not mean that future Apple devices could not see an increase in interest considering games.

 

[RudeCurve]

IMO the primary disadvantage Apple has with the iPhone/iPod Touch as a potentially serious gaming machine is cost and user control. Without tactile controls it's gaming potential is severely limited to Nintendo touch type games and motion control. If they could add a low profile nub/thumpad and a few hard buttons it would be guaranteed to take off because the install base is alreayd there and the programming model is very simple. I could see developers/publishers making games for it just because they could sell quite a few to people who like games and who already own a iPhone/iPhod.

Personally I'm planning on getting an iPhone after my ATT/Cingular contract expires and I'm willing to pay $30 for a high quality game as I would on a DS portable depending on the game. For example if I could get a 3rd party Touch type game on the iPhone that is graphically superior to the Nintendo DS equivalent, I would get the iPhone version rather than the DS version. Of course if I wanted to play some Zelda or Mario I would need to buy a DS too but that doesn't mean I would not continue to buy graphically superior games for an iPhone.

The big loser is going to be SONY. Their software support for PSP is severely lacking and the PSP itself is just a PMP with no phone or GPS abilites out of the box. Even when PSP2 arrives (with a touchscreen) it would still be trailing the iPhone's capabilites. I think SONY is in a difficult position because A) they have to decide whether or not to keep the UMD drive for PSP2 and B) they have to decide whether or not the PSP2 should be an iPhone copycat. As a PMP and game machine the PSP is looking more unattractive as we move forward because the iPhone and iPod Touch will be doing the same things and more. The UMD movie thing has died a long time ago.