images from around the world.

[antlers]

The war is clearly the United States' responsibility. There were other ways to respond to the threat posed by Saddam's supposed WMD (funny they haven't found of those yet, by the way). We were in no way obligated to respond to Iraq's violation of UN resolutions with an invasion (we were already responding with sanctions, no-fly zones, intrusive inspections, and other means). The United States picked the time, the location, and the scale of the armed conflict. Even if you are in favor of the war, at least be honest about that.

We can only hope that in time the benefits to the U.S. and the Iraqi people will outweigh the costs.

 

[pascal]

Man with all his family killed

At least 11 members of the same family - mostly children - have been killed in a coalition air strike on a residential district in central Iraq, western news reports say.

 

[Sabastian]

Poor sole..... only if Saddam had been more caring for his own people swallowed his pride and left the country. But we can't get any pictures of the estimated millions of families that were destroyed by Saddams regime can we?

 

[pascal]

Poor sole..... only if Saddam had been more caring for his own people swallowed his pride and left the country. But we can't get any pictures of the estimated millions of families that were destroyed by Saddams regime can we?

No but we can get the picture of the killed by US. Very liberating.

 

[Sxotty]

It sure is liberating, you can get pictures of those killed by the US on US news stations, it is certainly nice to be from a country that is not a hell hole with propaganda being the only medium of communication.

 

[pascal]

It sure is liberating, you can get pictures of those killed by the US on US news stations, it is certainly nice to be from a country that is not a hell hole with propaganda being the only medium of communication.

This is true!!! From CNN:

Karem Mohammed weeps Tuesday over the bodies of his family, including his six children, his wife, two brothers, mother and father in Al Hillah, Iraq, 74 miles south of Baghdad.

Do you have a popcorn?

 

[Sabastian]

Poor sole..... only if Saddam had been more caring for his own people swallowed his pride and left the country. But we can't get any pictures of the estimated millions of families that were destroyed by Saddams regime can we?

No but we can get the picture of the killed by US. Very liberating.

Funny how you must attack the US at every turn on this. You f*cking hypocrite. When the US is responsible for something you crucify them when it is someone else you are mostly ... indifferent. Its all attached to your political bias Pascal, isn't it?

We also can't have the pictures of all the people that would have died at the hands of Saddam in the future can we? To point out this one poor sole as if the US did it on purpose. Lets talk about the millions of people of Iraq whom died under Saddams regime intensionally. You seem to make some sort of pathetic moral equivalence between the millions of people whom have died under his rule and the hundreds of civilians that will die in the Liberation of Iraq. Further the deaths of civilians is being avoided as much as possible by the US and UK the same cannot be said about Saddams efforts.

You ignore the atrocities committed by Saddam and focus on the liberators of Iraq to the point where you are suggesting they are worse and that the Iraqi people would be better off under Saddam.

Now lets see you tear a rip out of Saddams oppressive regime and point out all the wrongs committed by him. You won't though because you think the Iraqi were better off with him or what? lol ... hypocrisy.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

"The Pentagon confirmed the rescue of Army Pfc. Jessica Lynch, who was listed as missing during combat near Nasiriya on March 23. "

 

[Sabastian]

That is .... amaising, good news indeed. Going to have to check out the news now.

L8r

 

[Vince]

Do you have a popcorn?

Hey Pascal, since Cosmo won't; will you answer my question from page 1?

I'll repost it here for ya:

So, let me get this strait. If your running a Meth-lab in your basement and are selling it to kids and your neighbor found out; he told you to get rid of the Lab immediatly or he'll call the police. So, you refuse and he calls... For the next 12 years, a negotiator is talking to the Meth dealer on the phone - to no avail. Next thing you know, SWAT blows off your door and comes charging into your house. You retreat to the bathroom, unbeknownst to them, with your 6 month old kid and slam the door shut. As SWAT approaches you start randomly shooting out the door. SWAT breaches the door and in the CQB an unidentified shot (from either party, as it's irrelevent) hit the child. As soon as the dealer is dead, SWAT rushes in and saves the kids life.

So, your telling me it's SWATs (or society at large's) fault that the kid was injured? If anything SWAT should be commended for removing the treat to the community, and freeing that child to live a life outside the realm of the methhead - a life that the child had no control over, a life that was unable to defend itself, a life that society had to protect.

I* happen to think the fault is as follow:

(a) Meth-dealer's fault for having a Meth-Lab
(b) Meth-dealer's fault for using the kid as a shield
(c) Meth-dealer's fault for even raising a kid in that enviroment

So, explain to me again how it's SWATs (or the entity whose situation parallels SWATs) fault. Oh, right, your just being a jerk... how dumb of me.

 

[pascal]

Funny how you must attack the US at every turn on this. You f*cking hypocrite. When the US is responsible for something you crucify them when it is someone else you are mostly ... indifferent. Its all attached to your political bias Pascal, isn't it?

What do you know about me? Is this about me or the war?
This is what I call a VERY DIRECT PERSONALL INSULT.

I am not indifferent. Nobody said that Sadam is a saint here. I was showing a picture and YOU come with comments then I had to react.

We also can't have the pictures of all the people that would have died at the hands of Saddam in the future can we? To point out this one poor sole as if the US did it on purpose. Lets talk about the millions of people of Iraq whom died under Saddams regime intensionally. You seem to make some sort of pathetic moral equivalence between the millions of people whom have died under his rule and the hundreds of civilians that will die in the Liberation of Iraq. Further the deaths of civilians is being avoided as much as possible by the US and UK the same cannot be said about Saddams efforts.

No I dont do any moral equivalence. You are completelly wrong.

You ignore the atrocities committed by Saddam and focus on the liberators of Iraq to the point where you are suggesting they are worse and that the Iraqi people would be better off under Saddam.

Now lets see you tear a rip out of Saddams oppressive regime and point out all the wrongs committed by him. You won't though because you think the Iraqi were better off with him or what? lol ... hypocrisy.

I am not sugesting anything. Are you disturbed by the picture of the man above? Maybe you still have hope.

Hypocrisy is saying you are going there to liberate Iraq.
Hypocrisy is say that all possible peacefull means were used to disarm him.
Hypocrisy is say "Poor sole..... " for the human tragedy.
Hypocrisy is other things...

 

[Ilfirin]

propaganda being the only medium of communication.

Are you from the same US I am? All I see on every channel I turn to is propaganda..

 

[pascal]

So, explain to me again how it's SWATs (or the entity whose situation parallels SWATs) fault. Oh, right, your just being a jerk... how dumb of me.

Great Vince

You are over simplifying the things.
Please, again, keep your education to your friends.

 

[Vince]

Hypocrisy is saying you are going there to liberate Iraq.
Hypocrisy is say that all possible peacefull means were used to disarm him.
Hypocrisy is say "Poor sole..... " for the human tragedy.
Hypocrisy is other things...

(1) We are going there to liberate Iraqi; thats the nasty, not PC, answer to our strategy of combating the virtual states of the 21st century. Most people ask this, Why Iraq? question and are sincere in their confusion. For the most part, I can respond to it with the WMD issue and win (which spares me the inevitable morality/ethical debate), but the truth is a bit diffrent. The reason they ask, Why Iraq? is because their really not smart people, sad fact, and: (a) Can't understand this themselves (b) Won't grasp why this is necessary and will not allow themselves to support it due to their lack of common-sence and contact with reality.

But, I'll give it a shot with you. The Problem facing the US and UK is the virtual state (eg. Al-Qaeda, Islamic Jihad, et al). We've eliminated the short-term problem of Al-Qaeda by ousting the Taliban and basically killing every scum-sucking thing in Afghanistan that lendsa help to terrorists that we can find. But, the long-term problem of global terrorism is still there. And looking at the nature and demography of the terorists, they're all based around the Middle East - which is the haven of the Islamisist cause and their fanatical beliefs that being 'fed' by the oppressive regimes that discurage forward social progress and education.

So, Iraq has fucked-up bad enough; they're a threat with their WMD. They're connection to virtual states is clear, they're an oppressive regime - Saddam's time has come. Beyond that, Iraq is a perfect place to plant the seeds of democracy in the region; they're resource wealthy, have a very educated and literate middle class, they're motivated.

So, we'll institute a representative democracy in Iraq, and step back. It will serve as a catalyst and within 50 years the geopolitical plane in the M. East will look nothing like it does today. Seeing your fellow muslims enjoy the freedoms, liberties and education that are present in the Neo-Iraq will be intoxicating to the rest of the M. East. The populace will rebell against the oppressive regimes and education will save the day and ultimatly protect the US in the 21st century. The US may have have the most powerful military bar-none; but it can't do what 25 years of MTV can...

So, liberation of the Iraqi people is the paramount goal... people are just too dumb to see it. Perhaps in the future, looking back, historians will see this; but then again historians aren't of the same breed (namely they are capable of intelligent thought) as the morons who use the 'Blood-for-Oil' stance.

(2) All peaceful options have been used over the course of the last 12 years. What more could we have done?

(3) & (4) are irrelevent as their not directed at me per say.

 

[Vince]

Great Vince

You are over simplifying the things.
Please, again, keep your education to your friends.

What, can't answer it? if you can't, just say so... As Demolion will tell ya, the reductionist method is very usefull in seeing the underlying argument thats often obscured under layer upon layer of strategic political motives, baises, alterior motives, et al.

Again, can you answer it or not? And if not, why?

 

[pascal]

Again, can you answer it or not? And if not, why?

Vince, you need an answer that is large enough to fill a full thread page.
I cannot do that because I am tired, I am too slow in english then it will not be good.
I dont see Iraq as an isolated situation, and I firmlly believe terrorism is a colateral damage. Smart damage control is the answer.

Unfortunatelly IMHO oil is a strong point of pressure which is different of the only reason. I think you are seing thinks very fast and direct. Very black and white, things are more gray scalle.

What we really disagree is the way to do things. Maybe this is in part my arrogance to think that "Probably I kown it much better than you".

Lets keep the original idea of this thread: pictures.

 

[Crusher]

British soldiers from the light infantry and 2nd Royal Tank Regiment stand by ammunitions inside the Zubayr Primary School in Az Zubayr, south of Basra, after they discovered an arms cache in the school on Tuesday.

With her face painted with a peace symbol, a protester shouts slogans during a demonstration near the U.S. Embassy in Manila, Philippines, on Tuesday against the war in Iraq. Protests are held almost every day.

 

[epicstruggle]

Ok please read this post before you post. I would like to start a thread where we post pics from the war in iraq, protests/reactions from around the world, and anything relating to the current conflict.

Please do not post graphic images. that includes the dead, mutalated bodies, and anything else that is just plain not acceptable to be viewed by minors.

I would like to see the types of images that are being shown around the world. Whats the newspapers showing in sweden, compared to what you might see here in the states. Id like to see what the differences in images are. Please include where you got the images from and any relavent info about the pic.

Please stay on topic and remember to not post extremely graphic images.

thanks

thanks crusher for getting back on topic which is to post pics from around the world about the war.

later,

 

[epicstruggle]

This girl in a black shawl is a member of a family of 74 people who left their homes in Kifre in northern Iraq over fears of a chemical attack. (Photo by David Turnley/CNN)

A young boy sells cigarettes in the marketplace in Kifre. School is not in session so many children make the most of their free time in the marketplace. (Photo by David Turnley/CNN)

ill bet this gets the anti-smoking peoples panties in a bunch after seeing someone clearly under 18 selling cigarettes.

later,

 

[Crusher]

General Norman Schwarzkopf (l) and Paul Wolfowitz (r)

Saddam's brutality and America's failure to support the Shia and Kurdish uprisings deeply affects a group of neo-conservative thinkers in Washington, including Richard Perle, William Kristol, and Under Secretary of Defense for Policy Paul Wolfowitz, who complains that the U.S. inaction is comparable to "idly watching a mugging."

In 1992 Paul Wolfowitz takes the lead in drafting an internal set of military guidelines -- "Defense Planning Guidelines" -- which is prepared every few years by the Defense Department.

Wolfowitz's draft argues for a new military and political strategy in a post-Cold War world. Containment, it says, is an old idea, a relic of the Cold War. America should talk loudly and carry a big stick -- and use it -- to preempt the use of weapons of mass destruction. And if America had to act alone, so be it. (Read excerpts from the Wolfowitz draft.)

Controversy erupts after the draft is leaked to the press. The Bush White House orders Defense Secretary Cheney to rewrite it. In the new draft there is no mention of preemption and U.S. willingness to act alone.

The bombing of Bagdhad

In December, Saddam ends Iraqi cooperation with UNSCOM and accuses the U.N. of espionage. On Dec. 15, UNSCOM Chairman Richard Butler reports that the Iraqis are refusing to cooperate with inspectors and the next day, President Clinton -- on the eve of the House impeachment vote -- orders Operation Desert Fox, a four-day bombardment of key Iraqi military installations. It is conducted without U.N. Security Council approval.

On Dec. 16, the day the bombing begins, the U.N. withdraws all weapons inspectors. Inspectors will not return to Iraq until November 2002, following the passage of U.N. Security Council Resolution 1441.