Image Quality and Framebuffer Speculations for WIP/alpha/beta/E3 games *Read the first post*

whatdog said:
guys, what is native res of infamous?

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/946/946815/infamous-20090121103723371.jpg

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/952/952671/infamous-20090209115654464.jpg
Click to expand...

These screenshots are 720p. There is quite a bit of edge aliasing in both shots along with some glaring specular aliasing between the tiles in the first shot. In the second shot, you can see the effect of low resolution bloom around the explosion edges.

Betanumerical said:
I'm guessing 1920x1080P no AA.
Click to expand...

Indeed. And either the jpg compression is adding strange blur to some of the edges, or they've got a funky implementation...
 
Statix said:
To be honest, after having witnessed many games this generation, most of them have at least some low-resolution base textures. It's really just a matter of how well the developer tries to hide each and every one of those low-res textures with high-frequency detail texture maps (which don't require a lot of extra memory). Condemned 2 (on the PS3 at least), for instance, likely has lower resolution textures than Killzone 2, but Monolith managed to use tiling detail bump maps along with specularity to very effectively to hide all of them, creating a very detailed and high-res look.


How did they leverage quincunx blur to their advantage, would you say? Also, could you elaborate on what you specifically mean when you say that what works for this game wouldn't work for others?



I'm sorry, but I don't see these vertical streaks that you're referring to. Are you talking about the orange part behind the smoke?
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I thought I noticed a few low res textures in KZ2, but they did an excellent job of hiding them.

And has anyone figured at what res Halo Wars is running at. I think it's 720p no AA judging from the demo.

With regards to using low res textures and spicing them up with specularity and normal maps. Does Gears of War 2 also do this trick? Or is it one of the few games to use genuinely high res textures (at max LOD)?
 
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vanquish said:
With regards to using low res textures and spicing them up with specularity and normal maps. Does Gears of War 2 also do this trick? Or is it one of the few games to use genuinely high res textures (at max LOD)?
Click to expand...
Gears 2 definitely does make liberal use of repeating grain textures overlayed atop of every texture to make every surface look detailed, as do most Unreal Engine games I've seen from this generation and last. Actually, the first game I ever saw to use this detail-texture technique was Unreal 1 back in 1998.

Specularity (or "teh shiney" effect) by itself isn't going to hide low-res textures. It's when you combine that specularity with repeating bump-map textures that it makes a difference. Condemned 2 and F.E.A.R. 2 are the only games I've seen where the devs simply put the same repeating "bumpy" bump-map texture on almost EVERYTHING, so that when a light source and/or your flashlight shines on those surfaces, their base/diffuse textures look higher-res than they really are.
 
Statix said:
Specularity (or "teh shiney" effect) by itself isn't going to hide low-res textures. It's when you combine that specularity with repeating bump-map textures that it makes a difference. Condemned 2 and F.E.A.R. 2 are the only games I've seen where the devs simply put the same repeating "bumpy" bump-map texture on almost EVERYTHING, so that when a light source and/or your flashlight shines on those surfaces, their base/diffuse textures look higher-res than they really are.
Click to expand...

Yup, I noticed that in a shot I took for the eternal screenshots thread.
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1269371&postcount=621

The second one; you can see how low res the base texture is in the shadow, whereas the spots in the sunlight look bumpy and detailed.
 
Thanks for calling attention :p;).

Seems i overlooked that because he was first respoding to inFamous.

It was not completely incorrect though, as nobody had responded to my question when Betanumerical was asking :eek:.

AlStrong said:
Indeed.
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Just as i thought, too. I don't think those are bullshots though (because there is no AA). What do you think? Wondering if the game will be full 1080p60? :D
 
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VF5 was 1024x1024 and I think the programmers said they could've done 1080p60 if the engineering resources weren't allocated to the netcode instead.
 
Full 1080p60 would be very nice of course.

The last Tekken 6: Bloodline Rebellion Trailer ('New Year Trailer') was 720p60 though. At least for PSN it was encoded at 720p60 (probably the best version available, most sites only had the trailer encoded at 720p30).

Maybe it was downscaled from 1080p60? Can't imagine they would do that though. Not sure.
 
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user542745831 said:
Full 1080p60 would be very nice of course.

The last Tekken 6: Bloodline Rebellion Trailer ('New Year Trailer') was 720p60 though. At least for PSN it was encoded at 720p60 (probably the best version available, most sites only had the trailer encoded at 720p30).

Maybe it was downscaled from 1080p60? Can't imagine they would do that though. Not sure.
Click to expand...

analysis based on this shot

http://media.teamxbox.com/games/ss/2140/full-res/1228239734.jpg

is 1024 x 768 No AA

I heard people complaining about Tekken 6 BR's graphics being blurrier than Tekken 6, but how it runs smoother, this probably is why.
 
MazingerDUDE said:
analysis based on this shot

http://media.teamxbox.com/games/ss/2140/full-res/1228239734.jpg

is 1024 x 768 No AA

I heard people complaining about Tekken 6 BR's graphics being blurrier than Tekken 6, but how it runs smoother, this probably is why.
Click to expand...

Hi,

thank you for your reply.

The picture you posted is not from the latest 'New Year Trailer'.

That's the latest 'New Year Trailer'::

http://www.gamersyde.com/news_7506_en.html

But on gamersyde.com it's only encoded at 720p30.

The PSN one (it shows PlayStation and Playstation 3 logo before the trailer starts) is encoded at 720p60.

Still, concerning the contents, both are basically the same trailer. And the picture you posted isn't coming from this trailer (no mocking, just wanted to tell).

Furthermore after you mentioned differences between 'Tekken 6' and 'Tekken 6: Bloodline Rebellion', i noticed, that the latest 'New Year Trailer' never mentions 'Bloodline Rebellion'. It only says 'Tekken 6'.

I assumed 'Tekken 6' is the arcade version which already is out and 'Tekken 6: Bloodline Rebellion' is the upcoming PS3/Xbox 360 game? Is that assumption right or wrong?

PS: can you tell which native rendering resolution / AA those:

http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/20080919/ambn20.htm

http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/20080919/ambn.htm

were?
 
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user542745831 said:
I assumed 'Tekken 6' is the arcade version which already is out and 'Tekken 6: Bloodline Rebellion' is the upcoming PS3/Xbox 360 game? Is that assumption right or wrong?
Click to expand...

T6 BR arcade has been out in the Asian region for sometime now.

It's hard to get readings on those shots you've linked due to the compression artifacts.
 
MazingerDUDE said:
T6 BR arcade has been out in the Asian region for sometime now.
Click to expand...

Okay, thanks for the info.

After reading this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tekken_6
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tekken_6:_Bloodline_Rebellion

it seems the PS3/Xbox 360 game actually will be called just 'Tekken 6'. As already mentioned, the latest trailer says just 'Tekken 6', too. So 'Tekken 6' should be correct then for PS3/Xbox 360.

It's hard to get readings on those shots you've linked due to the compression artifacts.
Click to expand...

Which screenshots do you mean?

Those from the trailer on gamersyde.com?

Or those from game.watch.impress.co.jp?
 
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MazingerDUDE said:
impress.co.jp
Click to expand...

Never mind then, they are pretty old anyway. Nevertheless, thanks for trying ;).

AlStrong said:
It may be worth noting that the 3D-modeled special effects exhibit 1:1 pixel:step
Click to expand...

I asked for analyzing those pictures, because the size of the picture MazingerDUDE posted (http://media.teamxbox.com/games/ss/2140/full-res/1228239734.jpg) is 1360 x 768. That reminded me of the older pictures from game.watch.impress.co.jp. Their image size is 1365 x 768. But on the first look they don't seem to be scaled like the picture MazingerDUDE posted. He said the one he postet would be rendered at 1024 x 768. On this one it's pretty visible at first sight that it has to be upscaled to 1360 x 768 instead of being rendered natively at 1360 x 768. So maybe the older images on game.watch.impress.co.jp were rendered natively at 1365 x 768?
 
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And this is why PR shots are terrible for making any conclusion about what the game will be. ;)
 
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