IGN: Nintendo a Niche Player? Sony Stabs MS in Article!

[Inane_Dork]

All true, but MS could materially improve their system from a feature point of view if they just waited 6-12 months...

That is true of everyone, though to varying degrees.

To play devil's advocate, I posit that I'm glad the X2 isn't at the whim of next-gen optical standards like the PS3 likely is. If the unification goes through, you might find the PS3 delayed.

 

[PC-Engine]

If the unification goes through, you might find the PS3 delayed.

Or you might find PS3 having a drive that isn't compatible with future HD movies from non SONY owned studios...

 

[Titanio]

That just says they had planned to. Did it actually happen?

I believe it did, but the offer was shortlived. (This was pretty late in DC's life anyway, after PS2 launched, so..).

All true, but MS could materially improve their system from a feature point of view if they just waited 6-12 months...

That is true of everyone, though to varying degrees.

Well, it's not like there are new dvd standards coming out every day of the week. And it's not like they've have long to wait.

To play devil's advocate, I posit that I'm glad the X2 isn't at the whim of next-gen optical standards like the PS3 likely is. If the unification goes through, you might find the PS3 delayed.

Well this the crux of the issue. Driven by product or other factors?

That said, if a unified format were to lead to a delay, they could still include Bluray, not delay, and still have one better feature over X360, even if its appeal is greatly limited (not the standard movie format).

BTW, I don't think a unified format would necessarily delay things at all..it could, but it's as likely, if not more so, not to.

They could always delay in Japan anyway, and just do a simultaneous release in Japan/America by the end of the year. That wouldn't make so much difference in the heel of the hunt That'd give them another 6 months to sort things out (and, as a bonus, another 6 months of process improvement etc. and falling prices to work with). Not that that's likely, just a possibility

(On a somewhat unrelated note, while the above scenario may not be particularly likely, I think it more than possible PS3's rollout won't match that of PS2's exactly in terms of timing. The PSP launch certainly worked on a different timetable. But we shall wait and see..I doubt we'll find out at E3).

 

[MechanizedDeath]

If the unification goes through, you might find the PS3 delayed.

Or you might find PS3 having a drive that isn't compatible with future HD movies from non SONY owned studios...

Sony-owned studios aren't the ones signed on BRD. If unification doesn't go through there it's BRD and HD-DVD, and one of those mediums is going to have a big install base advantage. The beauty of the BRD plan is that the PS3 is the perfect trojan horse. So Sony has a considerable about of leverage with BRD IMO. PEACE.

 

[MechanizedDeath]

They could always delay in Japan anyway, and just do a simultaneous release in Japan/America by the end of the year. That wouldn't make so much difference in the heel of the hunt That'd give them another 6 months to sort things out (and, as a bonus, another 6 months of process improvement etc. and falling prices to work with). Not that that's likely, just a possibility

I said the same thing over at GAF. If unification causes a delay, Sony can "postpone" the JPN launch. It's not like MS is gonna do much there. Even if the 360 improves MS's standing in Japan, there is still a huge amount of ground to make up, so Sony has some options there. I'd rather see that happen if it guarantees 512MB or more and 65nm. PEACE.

 

[PC-Engine]

If the unification goes through, you might find the PS3 delayed.

Or you might find PS3 having a drive that isn't compatible with future HD movies from non SONY owned studios...

Sony-owned studios aren't the ones signed on BRD. If unification doesn't go through there it's BRD and HD-DVD, and one of those mediums is going to have a big install base advantage. The beauty of the BRD plan is that the PS3 is the perfect trojan horse. So Sony has a considerable about of leverage with BRD IMO. PEACE.

What do you mean? SONY owned studios will support BRD exclusively. The trojan horse thing has been argued ad nauseam here already and the numbers indicate PS2 had very little affect on DVD adoption. PS3 will be exactly the same. Just do a search right here on this forum.

 

[see colon]

PS2 had very little affect on DVD adoption.

this situation is a bit different. there were already stand alone DVD players years before the ps2 came out. hell, i had one well before the dreamcast was launched in japan. there was a decent cataloug of movies on the shelves that people could watch in their ps2's when they purchased them. with BRD/HDVDV there's a format war (before someone brings it up the divx/dvd battle was settled before the ps2 was launched) with different studios taking sides. sony is definatly using the PS3 as a trogan horse to get BRD players into as many homes as quickly as possible..

 

[BOOMEXPLODE]

I don't see that the format war for HD movies will affect anything other than the format war for HD movies. As far as games go most systems have used a custom storage format that isn't universally compatible for copy protection purposes; if Sony doesn't get their format to be the future standard it will only mean that you might not be able to play future HD movies on your PS3, which is kind of a moot point because anyone who is enough of a videophile to care about HD movies will want a high-end standalone player anyway.

 

[PC-Engine]

PS2 had very little affect on DVD adoption.

this situation is a bit different. there were already stand alone DVD players years before the ps2 came out. hell, i had one well before the dreamcast was launched in japan. there was a decent cataloug of movies on the shelves that people could watch in their ps2's when they purchased them. with BRD/HDVDV there's a format war (before someone brings it up the divx/dvd battle was settled before the ps2 was launched) with different studios taking sides. sony is definatly using the PS3 as a trogan horse to get BRD players into as many homes as quickly as possible..

Having a drive but not actually buying HD movies to use it does not increase a format's adoption rate. It's like an API, just because it allows X function doesn't mean said function will catch on. If few developer uses that function then it's adoption is close to nill.

 

[jvd]

What no one wants to answer is how sony is going to offer a huge leap + next gen optical drive in 6-8 months time diffrence at the same cost to ms .

This isn't the dreamcast that cost 200$ adn the ps2 that sony was making at a loss for north of 400$ over a year later .

This will be two consoles within a year of each others launch with around the same money eaten per console made .

 

[RichardCypher101]

Perhaps the new architecture that Nvidia is developing will be beyond anyones expectations and has already woed the Sony camp, in combination with their plans with CELL (Who knows, maybe they have the Broadband Engine planned afterall), they could muster quite a system. Or this could just be a lot of PR mumbo jumbo and we'll have to wait to E3 8)

-Rich

 

[Titanio]

What no one wants to answer is how sony is going to offer a huge leap + next gen optical drive in 6-8 months time diffrence at the same cost to ms.

Well, I don't know about "leap" but

a) MS seems keaner to make money on hardware a lot sooner next-gen, which might suggest a lower per-unit budget from the start. Xbox is also one of MS's few pieces of hardware, so they can't leverage volume efficiencies with certain components like Sony can.

and

b) Sony's dollar goes further with a lot of the components in their system - they get a lot of things at cost that MS doesn't.

We already have a fair idea of the difference on the CPU side too..which looks to be larger than what you'd expect from just a 6-8 month gap. Who knows about the rest, though.

 

[_phil_]

huge leap + next gen optical drive in 6-8 months time diffrence at the same cost to ms

You have to put that in the perpective that both are claiming being the "next media-hub" ,so the nextgen optical drive IS part of the huge leap .

Another parameter is fab control.This gives high reactivity and cell should live it's own life outside gaming ,so they probably can afford to start more agressively.

 

[wco81]

do you think microsoft truncating this console generation by almost 2 years (launching a year late with xbox and at least a year early with 360) might leave a bad taste in some gamers mouths? especialy those who have as recently as this holiday season picked up an xbox?

At least on gaming forums, I think people who bought Xbox (who also had PS2s) are not soured at all. They will probably be those who buy all the consoles.

Xbox has had good sales in the last year or two. Maybe some of those people will think it's too soon for a new console and may wait until it's under $200.

You hear more people saying they started out with the PS2 and got the Xbox when it was $179 or $149. Now, they buy the Xbox versions of most games.

Plus some people really like XBL. But that's a small market segment which isn't going to swing overall console market share. MS seems to think the XBL connect ratio for Xbox 360 will be well over 50%. That's wishful thinking.

 

[jvd]

) MS seems keaner to make money on hardware a lot sooner next-gen, which might suggest a lower per-unit budget from the start. Xbox is also one of MS's few pieces of hardware, so they can't leverage volume efficiencies with certain components like Sony can.

There is no proof that they aren't willing to take a loss on hardware at the start . There is proof by thier deals that they want to be able to scale all the components quickly and they now have the freedom to do that which they didn't with the xbox .

b) Sony's dollar goes further with a lot of the components in their system - they get a lot of things at cost that MS doesn't.

right , except when you add in the cost of the fabs making the components and the money spent to continuely update them

You have to put that in the perpective that both are claiming being the "next media-hub" ,so the nextgen optical drive IS part of the huge leap .

except right now there may not be a next gen optical drive ready and so sony will either have to launch in 2007 or ship with dvd in 2006 depending on what spins out of these bluray/ hd-dvd talks



At most you might get a leap between the gamecube and xbox lvls or mabye a ps2- gamecube jump.

 

[Natoma]

Here's the Bill Gates interview.

Q: Sony (SNE) is the hands-down leader in the current generation of video-game consoles. Can Microsoft surpass Sony in the next generation?

A: Well, our goal in the last generation was to be in the game. And there were three companies -- Nintendo (NTDOY), Sony, and Microsoft -- who were in this round. We came out of this round a very strong No. 2. But as you say, Sony's installed base is more than double ours. They shipped before we did, and that gave them some momentum.

What we got this round -- at some significant financial cost -- was the opportunity to play again. But play again with greater credibility, credibility in terms of the strength of our team, the software developers, our understanding of the market.

And so now people are looking really at two companies. I'd say that everyone's watching what Sony will come out with for this next generation, and what will we come out with, and who can be the leader this time around. Both companies will be very big on it. Nintendo is more likely to be a niche player this time around.

 

[Titanio]

Sony's installed base is more than double ours.

Way to understate the difference (it's over 4x)

 

[Titanio]

There is no proof that they aren't willing to take a loss on hardware at the start . There is proof by thier deals that they want to be able to scale all the components quickly and they now have the freedom to do that which they didn't with the xbox .

Agreed, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if they also are keeping the initial per-unit cost a little lower in order to further expedite their move into the black with X360 (lower than it was with Xbox or PS2, I mean). I can't say for sure, obviously, that's just my speculation, but I certainly think it's possible.

right , except when you add in the cost of the fabs making the components and the money spent to continuely update them

They're using these for other products too, though, so..

The costs may balance out, but with the kind volumes playstation push, i don't think we can be sure..I'd say it'll work out cheaper for them for such components than it will for MS.

except right now there may not be a next gen optical drive ready and so sony will either have to launch in 2007 or ship with dvd in 2006 depending on what spins out of these bluray/ hd-dvd talks

Bluray is ready, it's just a matter of whether it'll be a guaranteed standard or not. And the scenario you paint of a 2007 launch if a unified format happens isn't any more likely than a 2006 launch with a unified format - I think it's more likely they won't be throwing out the kitchen sink and starting from scratch if they reach an agreement. Sony will be acutely aware of PS3 timing during these negotiations.

 

[jvd]

Agreed, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if they also are keeping the initial per-unit cost a little lower in order to further expedite their move into the black with X360

Remember the standard xenon will be 300$ there will be a 400$ 40 gig version. I think they will make a ton of money with that version . Mabye they will take a loss on both . But i highly doubt they will loose much on the 400$ version. So they are already keeping intial per -unit costs down.

They're using these for other products too, though, so..

Sure . But will all the products make enough money (aren't the fabs close to 400million + or so ) to keep the fabs going and pay to move them from 90nm - 65nm -45nm ? There are other factors to take into account .

We also know places like tmsc and the other place operate on razor thin margins . So in the end it might not be a huge diffrence that some want us to believe .

Bluray is ready,

except as we speak bluray may no longer exist . That is the thing . If sony puts out bluray in the ps3 and then they join a modified hd-dvd format they could likely screw themselves in regards to the ps3. It will be alot easier to get people to buy a dvd version of which titles will still be released for at least another 5 years . Than to get people to buy a bluray which sony has already jump to another ship over .

I think it's more likely they won't be throwing out the kitchen sink and starting from scratch if they reach an agreement. Sony will be acutely aware of PS3 timing during these negotiations.

No i'm sure they wont . But that doesn't mean the end result will be 100% compatibilty with either of the two old versions .

Sony may be aware of the ps3 and will try to get things as much in thier favor. But this is a negotiation . So the other sides will be trying to get things thier way .

Not to mention that the very fact that they have a next gen optical drive means they will be eating more money on just the drive alone than the xenon .

I just don't see a huge leap in the 6-8 months they would have between x360 and ps3 launch to see a huge leap . Yes the cpu will be faster most likely (though we don't know how much yet ) and the gpu will most likely be faster (though we don't know how much )

But i doubt it will amount into any significant diffrences in visual quality . There just isn't the time diffrence for this to happen

 

[Fodder]

I agree with JVD. If a unified standard goes through but isn't ready in time so Sony launch with a BR drive, then IMHO they'll be wasting money with every console, as DVD9 is enough for games for this generation and there won't be any BR films to make use of the drive.