If Wii become number 1

[Powderkeg]

Ok so role reversal here: If you were a kid this Christmas and wanted to convince your parents to get you one of the new "hip next gen" consoles, which would you target?

With the price tag for ps3 being very high, it could be problematic and place you in the "wait/no" category. With Wii the price being the cheapest of all three the answer should be a yes or at least the most preferable of all three. Would you risk the "no" and ask for a ps3 or go for the much more likely "yes" and likely have a new system?

Me being in that hypothetical situation, I would ask for the PS3, but would accept an Xbox 360 as a second option if I was told no. After all, multiplatform games would be on both systems, and although the PS3 does have the more desirable exclusives from a name-brand point of view, the 360 does have quite a few good looking exclusives of it's own. Both systems are ones you can be proud of owning in your typical kids social groups. (My friends teens are all impressed with the fact I have a 360. Even their daughter's boyfriend asked if he could come over and play it sometime)

One thing is for sure though. If I was a kid wanting a "hip next gen" console I certianly wouldn't be wanting the "kiddie" Nintendo system. Not unless I was about 10. Wouldn't want my friends laughing at me for playing the baby system. (Which is exactly what my friends teenage boy and his friends call their Gamecube. It's reserved for the 8 year old in the family.)

 

[sfried]

One thing is for sure though. If I was a kid wanting a "hip next gen" console I certianly wouldn't be wanting the "kiddie" Nintendo system. Not unless I was about 10. Wouldn't want my friends laughing at me for playing the baby system. (Which is exactly what my friends teenage boy and his friends call their Gamecube. It's reserved for the 8 year old in the family.)

Wow. Just wow.

And my answer to that is:

i meant exactly the *insert their favourite console here* titles!' to 'i can't allow to be seen playing a nintendo! i'm a pimply teen with maturity complexes and my peers will ridicule the living snot out of me' will do for a reason for those people.

Quite frankly, I don't see why people have been treating consoles as some sort of class-consciousness. Is pointless and not to mention a waste of time. If anything, it is the most immature form of status-symbol I've seen, regardless of age. And yes, I detest those who wear those random VG shirts in the hope of being "cool".

 

[Powderkeg]

Wow. Just wow.

What are you wowing about?

And my answer to that is:


Quite frankly, I don't see why people have been treating consoles as some sort of class-consciousness. Is pointless and not to mention a waste of time. If anything, it is the most immature form of status-symbol I've seen, regardless of age. And yes, I detest those who wear those random VG shirts in the hope of being "cool".

My answer to that is this:

We don't live in utopia. People compete for acceptance from their peers. It's starts as a baby, and continues through your entire life. At some point you may be trying to impress friends by owning certain products, at other points you may be cutting the legs out from under coworkers in order to get ahead in your career, but fact is peer pressure and acceptance are issues everyone deals with.

And unless you enjoy being the outcast freak, generally you will do what others expect you to do. If you doubt that ask yourself if the clothes you wear to work are the most comfortable clothes you own, and if not, why do you wear them?

 

[TheChefO]

What are you wowing about?



My answer to that is this:

We don't live in utopia. People compete for acceptance from their peers. It's starts as a baby, and continues through your entire life. At some point you may be trying to impress friends by owning certain products, at other points you may be cutting the legs out from under coworkers in order to get ahead in your career, but fact is peer pressure and acceptance are issues everyone deals with.

And unless you enjoy being the outcast freak, generally you will do what others expect you to do. If you doubt that ask yourself if the clothes you wear to work are the most comfortable clothes you own, and if not, why do you wear them?

Agreed 100% - For kids growing up specificly, most of them just want to fit in. With videogaming being a factor in kids social life, which console you own has an effect in your social image. Nintendo must do a lot to change this image publicly through advertising. And the name certainly didn't help any!

However if they are successful in making Wii an accepted console this year then watch out!

...otherwise Microsoft might just have to start selling more Viva Pinata's

 

[pc999]

Exclusivity on the platform. If every game played on every platform there would be much less fanboiism. The tech alone does get some merit, but compare nvidia v ati fanbois compared to console fanbois.

That is right.

One thing is for sure though. If I was a kid wanting a "hip next gen" console I certianly wouldn't be wanting the "kiddie" Nintendo system. Not unless I was about 10. Wouldn't want my friends laughing at me for playing the baby system. (Which is exactly what my friends teenage boy and his friends call their Gamecube. It's reserved for the 8 year old in the family.)

People have short memory and kids are stupid.
Anyway this is just a question of marketing, those guys make wonders.

We don't live in utopia. People compete for acceptance from their peers. It's starts as a baby, and continues through your entire life. At some point you may be trying to impress friends by owning certain products, at other points you may be cutting the legs out from under coworkers in order to get ahead in your career, but fact is peer pressure and acceptance are issues everyone deals with.

And unless you enjoy being the outcast freak, generally you will do what others expect you to do. If you doubt that ask yourself if the clothes you wear to work are the most comfortable clothes you own, and if not, why do you wear them?

Not everyone and those arent always the outcast freak but it still a number to big on the other side.

 

[sfried]

We don't live in utopia. People compete for acceptance from their peers. It's starts as a baby, and continues through your entire life. At some point you may be trying to impress friends by owning certain products, at other points you may be cutting the legs out from under coworkers in order to get ahead in your career, but fact is peer pressure and acceptance are issues everyone deals with.

That's you're problem, then.

And unless you enjoy being the outcast freak, generally you will do what others expect you to do. If you doubt that ask yourself if the clothes you wear to work are the most comfortable clothes you own, and if not, why do you wear them?

Quite simple: I live by my own expectations, not others. I don't need people to tell me what to buy or what not to. I base my judgement soley on objectivity. The same applies to consoles.

If none of the consoles this "next-gen" have anything to offer (for me at least, and that's including Nintendo), I won't buy them. And that's fine by me. I can live with that. Just don't go around insisting people that they are "kiddy" just because they want to try out the Wii. IMHO, it is the only console that still has my interest, but that alone isn't assurance that I'm gonna buy one.

I hate superficial "gamers."

 

[Powderkeg]

People have short memory and kids are stupid.

Memories may be short, but bad impressions often last a lifetime.

As for kids being stupid, yes they are. They are also easily influenced by someone else's opinion, and if something isn't cool, it simply isn't cool, and they'll never bother trying it to find out if they like it or not.

Anyway this is just a question of marketing, those guys make wonders.

They make wonders? Well, I admit they made me wonder what they were thinking last gen when they released a little purple box that looked like my daughter's Barbie makeup case.

Not everyone and those arent always the outcast freak but it still a number to big on the other side.

Oh trust me, you either conform or you are outcast. There isn't really any grey area there. Some people make their oddities work for them and become successful despite their non-conformity, but in the grand scheme of things, those people are extremely rare.

I can only think of 1 corporate CEO who shows up to company meetings in his pajamas and bath robe. 6+ billion people on this planet and there is only 1 Hugh Hefner.

 

[Powderkeg]

That's you're problem, then.

It's no problem to me. It's only a problem to those who don't conform. I don't always follow the pack, but I don't stray too far away from it either. It's a lifestyle that has been quite successful for me, rewarding me with a great career, wonderful wife, and fantastic kid.

Quite simple: I live by my own expectations, not others. I don't need people to tell me what to buy or what not to. I base my judgement soley on objectivity. The same applies to consoles.

If none of the consoles this "next-gen" have anything to offer (for me at least, and that's including Nintendo), I won't buy them. And that's fine by me. I can live with that. Just don't go around insisting people that they are "kiddy" just because they want to try out the Wii. IMHO, it is the only console that still has my interest, but that alone isn't assurance that I'm gonna buy one.

I hate superficial "gamers."

That's nice.

I was answering a HYPOTHETICAL question with a HYPOTHETICAL answer. You do understand what that means, right?

 

[swaaye]

I witnessed what's going to happen to PS3 myself the other day, within my family.

My mother was considering buying a 360 for my brother. She was immediately turned off by the $400 price and instead bought him a regular Xbox. I was totally out of the loop until well after the entire debacle (lol). She told me that she couldn't believe how expensive the game machines have gotten. I told her PS3 is coming and that it will be $600, and she was basically speechless. She doesn't see any value in spending that kind of money on a game machine. You can consider her the typical completely unaware parent-buying-toy-for-kids-who-love-games example.

I remember working big time to get my parents to buy me a SNES in '91 when it had already dropped in price.

So, there you have it. That's what I think is going to happen to PS3 in droves, and 360 as well in smaller numbers. Nintendo is ingenious for doing what they've done.

At least initially. PS1 was $500 when it hit here in the US too. And it destroyed the self-crippled N64 anyway. Can you guys imagine what would've transpired if SM64 hadn't built itself up to deservably insanely high levels of hype (and actual quality)? Saturn sure wasn't much of a competitor.

 

[TheChefO]

At least initially. PS1 was $500 when it hit here in the US too.

agreed overall with your statement but umm .. no

ps1 was 299 in the us
ps2 was 299 in the us

saturn was 399 (surprise time!!) quickly droped to 299 a few months later in response to ps1.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

So, there you have it. That's what I think is going to happen to PS3 in droves, and 360 as well in smaller numbers. Nintendo is ingenious for doing what they've done.

Actually, I think it's time for MS to make sure stores have Core units fully stocked for the holidays.

Despite all the bashing that it gets, the Core is exactly what consoles should be... or are expected to be. A single unit, a single wired controller, priced at $299 as a brand new system.

Wasn't that the same price point and package as the PS2 and Xbox? (Yes, Xbox did include a HDD.. but that was a rarity.. people were used to buying a memory card for every previous console)

Sure, the 360 offers better value it provides an OEM wireless controller as opposed to having to spend more money to buy a third party one last gen.. (yet, then you'd still also have your original OEM wired controller), it provides a HDD and removes the need for a memory card or the purchase of a HDD.

But, the 360 premium is essentially a bundle... that's all it is. It's the Core unit bundled with accessories.. whether not the majority of people here believe those accessories are mandatory or should be included.

If looked at as a bundle, the $399 version isn't too expensive. If looked at as a game console, the $399 version IS too expensive.

$499 and $599 versions that aren't bundles but are barebones systems is outlandish.

I was worried with the $399 360, and was rather pissed until I realized it for what it was.. a bundle that offered features that weren't included in previous generations. But $499 and $599 consoles? If we move away from the idea that N can offer systems at $249 and Sony and MS offer new systems at $299, and start raising the bar up to $399 minimums or higher, the entire market is going to implode because PCs will have become cheaper.

(if they haven't already)

 

[fearsomepirate]

nothing

 

[sfried]

It's no problem to me. It's only a problem to those who don't conform. I don't always follow the pack, but I don't stray too far away from it either. It's a lifestyle that has been quite successful for me, rewarding me with a great career, wonderful wife, and fantastic kid.

Then I don't see the point about being insecure with trying out Wii. People are curious. That's a natural instinct.

 

[Rolf N]

Yes, Nintendo needs many more manly games. Maybe they can arrange for a Loco Roco ripoff. Something like that will totally wash away their kiddie image, to be replaced by a more mature image, similar to Sony's

IMO "kiddiness" is still in the eye of the beholder, and presentation really isn't everything. E.g. I think GTA3 is a very childish game. And don't get me started about that Dead Or Alive spin-off. OTOH I thought Pikmin makes a fine game for a grown-up, despite its presentation.

 

[fearsomepirate]

$499 and $599 versions that aren't bundles but are barebones systems is outlandish.

Except you get more "barebones" than you do with the 360 bundle. That's like calling a Dell a really expensive barebones system (I'm assuming they don't sell real barebones cases). Just call it what it is: a system that has its price jacked through the roof because of feature creep.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

Except you get more "barebones" than you do with the 360 bundle. That's like calling a Dell a really expensive barebones system (I'm assuming they don't sell real barebones cases). Just call it what it is: a system that has its price jacked through the roof because of feature creep.

But what is it that you get?

A wireless controller at $499 and wireless internet at $599?

Which goes back to my original point: the 360 premium is a bundle. There's nothing stopping anyone from purchasing the Core version and then buying all the accessories that go along with the Premium version and having a premium version themselves.

Therefore, the 360 launched at $299 which is the same price point as the PS2 and Xbox, with similar feature sets. Console, wired controller.

IF the HDD if the PS3 is upgradable, why just not include it, include a less expensive wired controller, and then launch the two skus at $299 and $599?

I think the answer is simple.. it's because they can't.

You will never be able to upgrade a $499 PS3 to have the same feature set of the $599 PS3, and Sony already stripped everything they could out of the $599 PS3 in order to try to get into a more reasonable (HA!) price point at $499.

 

[fearsomepirate]

But what is it that you get?

At $499, you get a wireless controller, a Blu-Ray player, and a 20 GB hard drive. Of course, the Blu-Ray player won't output in 720p once the HDCP or whatever it is starts getting implemented. At $599, you get in addition wireless Internet, HDMI , and 60 GB hard drive. This is well-known.

IF the HDD if the PS3 is upgradable, why just not include it

Um, why not say the same thing about PC manufacturers? The answer is simple. Sony obviously thinks that a hard drive is an integral part of what they want the PS3 to be. They could do like MS is doing this gen and release a console with a standard DVD drive and no hard drive, but they apparently think that massively increasing storage capability is important to defining the PS3 experience. They want developers to rely on having a hard drive and consumers to not be put off from the full online experience because they don't have or can't find a PS3 hard drive (look at how successful the PS2 hard drive was).

 

[darkblu]

IMO "kiddiness" is still in the eye of the beholder, and presentation really isn't everything. E.g. I think GTA3 is a very childish game. And don't get me started about that Dead Or Alive spin-off. OTOH I thought Pikmin makes a fine game for a grown-up, despite its presentation.

isn't it funny how you can take a lousy D-grade game, add in some gore and tits and voila - a mature-targetted title! producers often do that not because all of a sudden the game will become of some value to adults but because some teenagers may decide playing it would make them cool.

people often forget that the ESRB rating does not serve any other purpose but designate kids-inappropriate sights and sounds. not story, not perceptions, not adult skills and thinking. a pimply teenager does not get any more mature from playing GTA and DOA. but of course it's not the kid's fault for being deluded - it's their parents. for buying up the teen-targeted hype, for swallowing the marketing, for outright not caring. each time i see a parent at a store buying GTA to their teen kid i barely refrain myself from yelling at the person 'WTF do you think you're doing to your kid!?'

 

[liolio]

i 'm just thinking about something, Wii is fully compatible with GC.
Wii is at least underwelming tech wize.
Can possibly the bigN aim at a shorter lifetime for console?
If we look to handheld console bigN push a new product, a better product quiet often, but most of the time keep full backward compability.

Everybody think MS aims at shorte lifecycle, but nintendo could the first here.

Sending cheap console, as technology improves, put a new product on the market with full backward compatibility.

That way they could keep up quality wize, without selling expensive products.

the Wii isn't futur proof to say the least, and even if gameplay is great, it will look very datedr when we'll reach mid nextgen lifecycle.

bigN console are based on powerpc architecture for cpu and ati for gpu,
and not a lot but very fast memory, they can easily upgrade spec and keeps compatible products.
More the RD cost are low because they don't futur proof their system.

So what do you thinking of hypothetic "nintendo hidden plan" ie shortening console lifecycle to keep costs down while offering backward compatible and not dated hardware?

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

At $499, you get a wireless controller, a Blu-Ray player, and a 20 GB hard drive. Of course, the Blu-Ray player won't output in 720p once the HDCP or whatever it is starts getting implemented. At $599, you get in addition wireless Internet, HDMI , and 60 GB hard drive. This is well-known.

Missing the point entirely.

I wasn't asking for the differences in spec, I was pointing out that the PS3 is ridiculously highly priced and isn't priced in that manner because it is a bundle.

The $399 360 is ridiculously priced.. but it's a bundle. The PS3 simply can't offer a stripped down version that is upgradable at a later point like the 360 has done.

That's my point.

Um, why not say the same thing about PC manufacturers?

Um.. Because PC manufacturers don't sell hardware at a loss due to heavy competition and price point expectations?