Ice Nine...

Well, while I was cheking out GameSpot last night, I saw a game called Ice Nine. I had no idea what it was actually about (I still don´t have a clue). However, I did see a couple impressive screenshots, very clean, detailed textures, and very few jaggies. The game never specified what platform it was for. Naturally, I thought this was Xbox software.

So, I log in to GameSpot tonight and what did I find out? That the game was actually PS2 software! The graphics technology seems to be outstanding, to say the least. What do you guys think?

Here´s the link...http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/news/0,10870,2895818,00.html
and yesterday´s link
http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/news/0,10870,2895765,00.html
 
icenine_screen001.jpg


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Hopefully those images work...
 
Yeah, they work. The technology behind this game seems to be really tight. However, I´m more interested in the gameplay elements, Xbox has thought us that outstanding visuals doesn´t necesarily equal amazing games.
In any case, the thing that amazes me the most about the game are the picture quality and texture work. It seems the performance analizer really is helping out the developers. ;)

BTW, I have no idea if the developers used the performance analizer. :)
 
Looking good!

Nothing that blows away the other consoles, but definitely some nice imagery coming out of that PS2 hardware.
 
Logan Leonhart said:
Yeah, they work. The technology behind this game seems to be really tight. However, I´m more interested in the gameplay elements, Xbox has thought us that outstanding visuals doesn´t necesarily equal amazing games.

Actually it was Final Fantasy that taught us that good graphics doesn't necessarily translate to good gameplay. :)

In any case, this game has a unique look to it. Keep digging.
 
Logan Leonhart said:
Yeah, they work. The technology behind this game seems to be really tight. However, I´m more interested in the gameplay elements, Xbox has thought us that outstanding visuals doesn´t necesarily equal amazing games.

I can't thing of a game on the Xbox that has outstanding visuals but doesn't have equally good gameplay.

Rallispot Challenge, Transworld Snowboarding, Enclave (Under Dog of the Year), Halo, DOA3 (highly subjective, I know), Quantum Redshift... all excellent games in their own right. /shrug

If anything, graphics have been a pretty good way to gauge which games to shy away from gameplay-wise (Azurik, Nightcaster, Bloodwake, Kabuki Warriors).

By the way, would some one please explain to me what this 'performance analyzer' is, besides something that analyzes performance?
 
Mr. Angry Pants said:
I can't thing of a game on the Xbox that has outstanding visuals but doesn't have equally good gameplay.

Rallispot Challenge, Transworld Snowboarding, Enclave (Under Dog of the Year), Halo, DOA3 (highly subjective, I know), Quantum Redshift... all excellent games in their own right. /shrug

If anything, graphics have been a pretty good way to gauge which games to shy away from gameplay-wise (Azurik, Nightcaster, Bloodwake, Kabuki Warriors).

You forgot to mention Wreckless on Xbox, just wondering where are you going to put that ?
 
Mr. Angry Pants said:
If anything, graphics have been a pretty good way to gauge which games to shy away from gameplay-wise (Azurik, Nightcaster, Bloodwake, Kabuki Warriors).

Eh? Bloodwake has pretty good (excellent even for a first-gen title) graphics:

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It's certainly no Twisted Metal Black though as far as strength and consistency of gameplay :(
 
That's true, but Bloodwake was still somewhat amusing - maybe a 7/10. Same goes for Wreckless.

Nevertheless, it's the rare game that gets a good enough budget to have great graphics that doesn't at least have good gameplay.

The best looking Gamecube games - Starfox, Rogue Leader, and Super Mario Sunshine - have good gameplay.

Same goes for MGS2 (although it's sort of the Wreckless of the PS2 - light on gameplay), Tekken 4, ICO, and FFX. All of these games play fairly well.

On Xbox you have DoA3, Rallisport, Halo, and Quantum Redshift - all good games.
 
Remember Outcast 2 for PS2? What happened to that one? Vapor like steam over my coffee.

Now these arguments are funny. I remember having such arguments when i was back in fourth grade. Graphics don't make games fun. Hmmm now that is a relative nonsensical stance. First off part of a games draw is in fact its graphical appeal. I would have to say there are various factors that determine how fun a game is: Sound, graphics, control, story and concept.

Let me ask all you "gameplay" fanatics in here a question. How do you know all your "good" games wouldn't be more fun with more deformable levels or just plain better appearance? I am sure you will admit that graphics DO play a role in the overall gameplay.

To assume that a game isn't good because of its appearance is just as ridiculous as it is to assume that a game is good because of its appearance.

I have to laugh when i hear those people out there say "well i'll take my gameplay over good graphics anyday." Thats an empty BS statement. What is gameplay? Its just a gathering of various components. Graphics and how they are used IS a component of that. Would you enjoy playing Resident Evil if the characters were composed of black vectors and the backdrops were solid red? Of course not. The game was designed around its appearance having some kind of affect on you. Namely fear through suspense.

There are others things here getting on my nerves.

Namely all those peole who turn to rating to say a game is good or not. Does it occur to any of you that ratings are an OPINION. Everyone slight of Bill Clinton (who's opinion was his wife's) has one.

In other words I enjoyed Wreckless. It was a good game in my opinion. If your reviewer doesn't like the game that is his opinion. To tell me the game was bad because he said so is also opinion.

Johnny Awesome why are you even honoring their comments with a reply?

BTW - Logan the PS2 has taught us that good lookings games for it are often vapor ware.
 
Graphics don't make games fun. Hmmm now that is a relative nonsensical stance. First off part of a games draw is in fact its graphical appeal. I would have to say there are various factors that determine how fun a game is: Sound, graphics, control, story and concept.

Complete and utter garbage. You ever played PC games? You ever adjust the graphics options? Would you explain how the hell graphics effect gameplay? Most people tend to agree that if anything, lowering the graphics detail as much as possible improves gameplay(as it helps the game have more responsive controls which is an actual gameplay element).

I am sure you will admit that graphics DO play a role in the overall gameplay.

Graphics only impact gameplay if it is in the negative(hurting performance, too dark- impeding the game in any way). Would SuperMonkeyBall have better gameplay if the graphics were on par with Doom3? Not a chance in hell.

To assume that a game isn't good because of its appearance is just as ridiculous as it is to assume that a game is good because of its appearance.

That is absolutely correct, although it doesn't agree with the rest of what you said.

What is gameplay?

The interactive element of a game.

Would you enjoy playing Resident Evil if the characters were composed of black vectors and the backdrops were solid red? Of course not. The game was designed around its appearance having some kind of affect on you. Namely fear through suspense.

RE has some of the worst gameplay of any game ever. It is a game that uses environment to invoke emotions, not gameplay. Gameplay is also commonly referred to as the 'fun factor' of a game. Some games in their totality may be extremely good at what they do without having even semi decent gameplay mechanics(RE being one of those). The film quality of the Godfather is absolutely horrible(the prints, which are easily comparable to grapihcs) and yet the move still is one of the greatest ever made. Was the movie fun? No. Was it supposed to be? No. Was it enjoyable is an entirely different matter, and one that is the real question. Gameplay is gameplay, it has next to nothing to do with graphics and everything to do with fun.

Namely all those peole who turn to rating to say a game is good or not.

It tells you what the consensus is. I'm sure pretty much everyone here can tell you about at least one game they had an absolute blast with despite knowing it sucked as a game.
 
Complete and utter garbage. You ever played PC games? You ever adjust the graphics options? Would you explain how the hell graphics effect gameplay? Most people tend to agree that if anything, lowering the graphics detail as much as possible improves gameplay(as it helps the game have more responsive controls which is an actual gameplay element).

You mean sort of like your test for RL running at 30 fps? No this isn't garbage. WTF are you saying Ben? Graphics is completely irrelevant for various FPSs. They are not developed around necessarly looking good as they are designed around concept. If we took something like Red Faction and took out its deformable meshes i garauntee you it wouldn't be as fun to play been. You are comparing resolution to necessarily meshes apples and oranges Ben. A lot of what you see in FPSs are client side details that are limited by the amount of bandwidth they are intended to use. This changes the way FPSs are designed to work. Now if you took any one of those titles and added a new feature in them such as deformable meshes (assuming that they are done well) the inclusion could make the game more fun. Would you play the game if it were composed of completely vectors Ben? Hell no you wouldn't. Graphics do play a part. To say otherwise is ridiculous.


Ben you are completely misrepresenting what i said. There are various componets to a game and YES graphics is one of those. Concept however is the MOST important. IN cases such as resident evil the concept is really only possible on a system powerful enough to properly convey "emmotion" of the moment.


That is absolutely correct, although it doesn't agree with the rest of what you said.

No you just didn't think about what i wrote.


The interactive element of a game.

ANd what are demforable meshes in Red Faction Ben? What are exploding meshes ben? Do those fit under interactive and graphics ben? Don't be so damn obtuse. The reason why you perceive and object to be what it is in a game is because it is capable of being descerned as an object.


RE has some of the worst gameplay of any game ever.

That is your damn opinion. I could really care less what you think. I was providing an example. I am sure there is a game out there you play that has interactive objects in it.

It is a game that uses environment to invoke emotions, not gameplay.

Can you not conceive the mere possibility that playing the game and its emmotions that it invokes could interest some one? Only 500,000 so odd people bought the game in the US alone i am sure they bought it for a reason Ben and not just its visual quality.

[quote[Gameplay is also commonly referred to as the 'fun factor' of a game. Some games in their totality may be extremely good at what they do without having even semi decent gameplay mechanics(RE being one of those).[/quote]

Gameplay? What is "gameplay" Ben? I would say it is the composition of all interactive elements of the game which includes graphics elements. Would you disagree?
 
You mean sort of like your test for RL running at 30 fps? No this isn't garbage.

Bringing up that discussion? The one where updating the screen 60 times per second is 60FPS even if it is the exact same frame....riiiight.

. You are comparing resolution to necessarily meshes apples and oranges Ben.

WTF....? Resolution....? Do you know what a texture slider is? Do you know what adjusting geometric LOD is? Have you ever seen a game that gives texture filtering options? What about AA? Ever seen a title with optional Cube Maps? What about Dot3? How about PS effects? Draw distance? How many PC games have you ever played? I stated graphics options because I meant graphics options. If I meant resolution I would have stated resolution.

If we took something like Red Faction and took out its deformable meshes

Deformable meshes can have an impact on gameplay, although that doesn't mean that they will. In some instances they are interactive where they will be a factor, in other instances they are simply cosmetic at which point they are not.

Ben you are completely misrepresenting what i said. There are various componets to a game and YES graphics is one of those.

Graphics are a component of a game, not gameplay. Acting is a component of a movie, doesn't mean it is a component of the grips however.

IN cases such as resident evil the concept is really only possible on a system powerful enough to properly convey "emmotion" of the moment.

Is that why the PSX version did so much better then the Cube remake?

No you just didn't think about what i wrote.

Funny, it came across that neither did you :)

ANd what are demforable meshes in Red Faction Ben? What are exploding meshes ben? Do those fit under interactive and graphics ben?

So now the physics engine is the same as the graphics engine in your eyes.... I'm at a loss there. How you are drawing those two together is beyond me.

The reason why you perceive and object to be what it is in a game is because it is capable of being descerned as an object.

The reason you can destroy said object is due to the physics calculations.

That is your damn opinion. I could really care less what you think. I was providing an example. I am sure there is a game out there you play that has interactive objects in it.

Interactive objects are physcis and control based- gameplay elements.

Can you not conceive the mere possibility that playing the game and its emmotions that it invokes could interest some one? Only 500,000 so odd people bought the game in the US alone i am sure they bought it for a reason Ben and not just its visual quality.

What is your point? Did I say the game did not evoke emotions? Did I say those people were wrong? Did I say the game was lacking on what it was supposed to be? Did I say any of those things?(I'll give you a hint, the answer is no to all of them ;) ).

Gameplay? What is "gameplay" Ben? I would say it is the composition of all interactive elements of the game which includes graphics elements. Would you disagree?

Yes, absolutely with the part about 'graphics' being interactive. Graphics are the representation of the underlying object that is interactive. Go try and shoot mip boundaries and see what you get.
 
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