I hate EA

[Acert93]

http://www.firingsquad.com/news/newsarticle.asp?searchid=7922

LOS ANGELES, April 11 (Reuters) - Video game publisher Electronic Arts Inc. (ERTS.O: Quote, Profile, Research) on Monday said it signed an exclusive six-year deal to publish officially licensed college football games. EA said the deal with Collegiate Licensing Company gives it the right to the teams, stadiums and schools for use in its games, for all consoles and handheld devices.
The first game under the deal is "NCAA Football 2006," expected this summer.

With the arrangement, EA now holds an exclusive lock on licensed football, having already struck similar deals with the National Football League and Arena Football League.

I think back to all the times Madden sucked (and since I have played every version since its first release on the PC and consoles and know for a fact it has at times) and just shake my head. As the Madden, Live, and MLB series show even EA does not always churn out the best titles.

But for now on that is all football fans will get: EA. As much as I like Madden this has gone way to far in my opinion. I like competition, even if one company kicks everyone elses butts... but this is a little silly.

Good business move from EA. They are using their massive resources to secure their franchises. Little do the NFL et al know that even if EA makes great games, with no other companies making football games no one will be in competition with EA in 5-6 years to make quality football games, thus the value of the license will go down. Good business move EA... although as a gamer I am ticked.

 

[Brimstone]

I personally like NCAA over Madden, although I have to admit I don't keep up on all the new features in Madden. Anyway my point is I liked NCAA before all the exclusive team and stadium names, so they've done a good job as far as I'm concerned. For all the money they're shelling out, they have to keep sales growing otherwise they'll going to get the short end of the stick.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

This isn't the end of other football games - only licensed teams, players etc. PES has remained a top game, well supported, despite the dubious names of teams and players. London North? Merseyside Blue? Sensible Soccer did an excellent job of football without official teams!

As I understand it, the NFL imposes strict restrictions on what can and cannot be included. Without being tied to their license, non-NFL Football can include more 'interesting' features.

Yeah, EA will steal the limelight as mainstream shoppers seek the game with their team, but that also might drive the competition to create even better games to win on gameplay, not Names. For gamers this might be a good thing. :?

In agreement though, I hate people waving big wallets around to succeed (no matter who they are), instead of succeeding by a best product.

 

[wco81]

I guess EA figured they would drive the stake through the heart to make sure the competition was dead.

There was no threat to NCAA Football. VC had abandoned it years ago and overall sales of NCAA aren't nearly as big as the pro games.

In fact, I think at least two years ago, NFL Street outsold NCAA.

Maybe they wanted to make sure nobody else was developing ideas for football games, whether pro or college, so that when the exclusive license was up, they wouldn't have to worry that the competition had continued to develop football game features which could be put in a pro game.

I wasn't the biggest fan of VC (their games were alright but not demonstrably better to make enough people switch) but it will be sad that they will be relegated to only basketball, hockey and baseball games. VC was listed as one of the developers for the X2 in the press release.

 

[Acert93]

Good points Shifty. Feel free to ignore my below rant... not directed at anyone (less EA!!)

The problem is with Football games is that the License IS the game. As an American football fan I am certain that 90% of football gamers play football games because of the Teams/Players. Another football game without real Teams&Players--since EA owns both now--would need to be multiple degrees better to even compete. In the past (N64/PS era) companies have gotten away with just a Team license at time, but that was in an era where 1) EA was not as dominant 2) player recognition in games was lower and 3) competitors had the team names/NFL license so that was enough. But with the NFL games being as competitive as they are now, and gamers expecting NFL Team and NFLPA licenses, a company cannot survive with neither.

No company can afford to compete with EA in football now. 1) Sega cannot make a decent college game and use that engine as a springboard for an NFL game and 2) game development costs are far too high to make a game that only 10% of the market will even consider.

We will see the Midway drug-football game, but for real football we are going to be stuck with EA. I personally like Madden, but considering Madden has had plenty of down years (and years of no innovation) and considering VC was becoming a serious competitor quality wise--VERY good for consumers--I am really dissappointed. I do not see a company making a profit on a next gen game with no NFL licenses. Look what they are up against:

EA Owns:
-NFL exclusive license
-NFL Team names and icons
-NFL Player names
-Madden name
-ESPN (they now own their competitors name)
-AFL (Arena Football League)
-NCAA (College Football)

If I was a developer there was no way I would waste 2 years and $5M to make a football game going against that. And with football games it takes 4 or 5 years to get "feature rich" because there is so much tweaking needed to make the product good.

The only football EA does not own is Soccer... which they already have a tight hold on with the Fifa license. And if it were not for the nature of Soccer (and more than one competitive league, world cups, etc...) and the fact Winning 11 has been awesome for the longest time and the rabbid nature of soccer fans (football fans are not as rabid when it comes to the gameplay imo) just hard to compare.

Yeah, I am not too happy about this. Ignore my rant/vent/complaining

 

[Kolgar]

Acert, I agree - this sucks.

I've always gone where the best game of football was to be found. In the early PSone days, that was Gameday. Thanks to that series, EA kicked it into gear and built Madden into a competition-killer on PS2.

But then VC made what I feel is the best football game I've ever played: NFL 2K5. This title whipped Madden in every way that matters to me - especially in look, feel, and speed of play.

Now because of this ridiculous situation with the NFL, I will no longer have a viable alternative to EA if I want a "real" game of football. My now-favorite series is dead.

For shame.

Competition is beneficial for consumers. And I think that in the end, people (including the NFL) will realize that this deal wasn't such a great idea.

 

[Legend]

Like some mentioned, EA has only the actual names. So what? Do you really think devs will hang everything on a license? Yes, it’s good for marketing to have a well known name, but again, some great games are out there without licenses. GTA doesn’t have licenses with its cars and such, Burnout is a great game though all cars are fictional. The competition will still be there. It is not like Sega and Take Two and the others will give up over a name.
By the way, the Madden name isn’t staying with EA for long.

On EA itself, it is a great game dev and publisher. I generally don’t like there movie tie-ins, but other properties are extremely well done like Def Jam, NFS series, etc. also, their BIG team is crazy! Another thing you find with EA is high production values. And they are one of the best in sports games.

I like EA, and all their license acquisitions and what not are perfectly legal. Why hate a competitor if had the wits and brawns to acquire property?

I really admire EA securing 20% of Ubisoft from right under there noses. I say not so shabby!

 

[Brimstone]

I don't feel the license is the game. Midway is planning to release Blitz: The League, and this game is going to have a much better chance to be a success now that EA has all the exclusives. Yeah, if you want actual NFL or NCAA stuff you have to go with an EA game, but over the years so many great sports games haven't had offical licenses.

IGN Sports: Do you feel like your game will be able to compete with a game like Madden even without the NFL license?

Mike Bilder: Definitely. We're offering something Madden can't offer. The average football gamer is in his late 20's. He sees what happens on the field, and he sees what happens off the field. He recognizes the heroes and idols in the NFL, but he also sees the scandals and the controversy. We're delivering that complete package. We're going places that Madden has never gone before and can't go to as long as it's an NFL licensed product. The lack of the restrictive NFL license has given us the power to give gamers the brutal and truthful football experience they've always wanted. Blitz: The League is going to revolutionize sports gaming

Blitz: The League Interview from March 31 2005

 

[Acert93]

Here is the problem though:

The NFL is a monopoly. They are synonymous with Professional Football.

You cannot compare GTA and Burnout because they are not the same. They just are not and there is no point even trying to make the comparison.

As for Blitz, maybe they have a chance to make some sales. But that is not the point: Blitz never was, and never will be, a Professional Football game. And whether Blitz does well we wont know. Obvisouly they are not going to say it is going to stink and not sell well--they must remain optimistic if they wish to bring the product to market. An example of why this is all fake hype:

We're delivering that complete package. We're going places that Madden has never gone before and can't go to as long as it's an NFL licensed product.

No they are not offering a complete package. They wont have real NFL teams, NFL players, and so forth. Pro Football fans, who watch Pro Football, buy Pro Football games. Their game is definately not a complete package, and the fact he even says this indicates this is all marketing spin. "Yeah... we have the best car racing game ever, the complete package... except no real cars".

How many copies did Blitz sell last year? And how many did Madden&ESPN sell? Basically they are totally different genres. One, pro football, sells millions and millions of titles per year. The other is not sustainable on a yearly bases because of of the nature of the game. Pro ball revolves around real seasons; while fake ball revolves solely upon the merits of the game itself.

Because of game budgets in spiralling toward the 10's of Millions we wont see a competitors make a Pro Football game to compete year in and out with EA. It wont happen. EA know this. It is too expensive, and will the NFL, NFL Teams, NFL players, NFL coaches plastered all over their game the competition has no chance. I know this as a Pro Football fan (i.e. the type of person who buys this type of game). And with the AFL and NCAA license they prevent anyone from having a viable revenue string. Sega could have gone hard after the NCAA and used that game engine to make a competitive, if not underselling, Pro game. It cannot happen now. I see no money in this.

So we will get our Blitz game (and it will seel a few 100k the first year, and hardly any after that)... but fans of Pro Football (all 3-5M of us every year) are stuck with one product with no competition. Like I said, I like Madden but ESPN was a good product and it was making Madden a LOT better. It is sad to see the competition gone because like it or not, EA has a history of not innovating in its Madden series without competition. That is why they delayed their PS launch for an entire year. GameDay came out with better gameply and 3D graphics while EA tried to shovel out a 2D version.

And guess what? I am betting X2 gets an upgraded port this year instead of a next gen version--who knows what Sega may have done with an NFL license. But that is the point--EA was not willing to risk Sega offering a better Next Gen game EARLY. It was less risky to secure long term profits and kick Sega out of the game. Good for EA, bad for consumers who thrive on competition.

 

[mckmas8808]

Everybody here is making almost perfect points. Never seen a thread so great.

Back on topic: All I have to say is don't get pissed off at EA. They had to do what they had to do. The NFL was putting up the license. EA just had more money.

And the other person was right with EA owning all styles of American football why would any respectable company even try to compete (besides Midway). Midway has a good idea we just don't know if it will work.

The only other choices are Canadian and European football i.e. CFL and I don't know the initials for Europe football. I just don't even see a reason in making either.

 

[wco81]

You can kind of see a strategy in locking up all these football licenses. Not just to get rid of the competition but to eliminate (or try to at least) all alternate development of technologies which could be used for football games.

Imagine if they introduce and refine a physics systems which doesn't exist in football games. Or if they develop better AI for things like pass defense, line-blocking, etc. These are all areas that could use a lot of refinement.

If they make any kind of progress in these and other areas, they will have a big competitive advantage by the time the licenses expire. Because if VC's experience is locked at what they did with NFL2K5 but the bar 5 years from now include better graphics, physics, better AI, etc., EA would have a big advantage.

Not to mention they would be continuing to add brand equity while NFL2K5 and other football brands will have to win back some customers, even those who were previously fans, as VC and others will have to prove they can ramp up after a long layoff from making football games.

 

[Acert93]

The only other choices are Canadian and European football i.e. CFL and I don't know the initials for Europe football. I just don't even see a reason in making either.

The European League is owned by the NFL and is under the EA license.

The CFL is the last un-owned frontier but the CFL is also a very small and revenue poor league. They are not very popular and I cannot imagine the brand being strong enough to support sales. But who knows, maybe someone will take a risk and it could be good for the CFL. A physics based animation system and killer graphics with some hard htting, over the top, high scoring football could be a niche.

While the NFL was shopping the NFL license, EA has proactively gone after the AFL and NCAA. Ditto with ESPN... yeah, talk about taking the name of your competitors product!

wco81: Dead on. EA not only kills current competition, but also makes it near impossible for the future. They get 5-6 years to build on their franchise and be the _only_ game in town. It takes years and years for a football game to be a good/bug free/balanced game and even more to become feature rich. Season mode, franchises, drafting, commentary, trading, and etc... NFL games are a huge project and I think we have all see what has happened to those who could not keep up. GameDay, Quarterback Club, Tecmo, Monday Night, Front Page Sports, 4th and Inches, Fever, Joe Montana, and the list goes on. The competition is fierce and with the larger bugets and the Higher Expections of Gamers for sports games a lot of the smaller budget, small dev teams could not keep up. And now we have insane development costs. In 2004 we had only 2 real NFL games... and in 2005-2011 we will have only 1. After that, since EA has the NFL/NCAA/AFL completely locked up, I do not see how anyone could realistically be in a position to compete.

But it wont matter. Even with average products EA will sell a ton of Maddens--because consumers wont have a choice if they want to play Pro Football games. Unlike racing fans who have a wide variety of choices, if you like pro or college football you have one choice: EA. Over the last 3 years I have purchased 4 NFL games and have enjoyed how the competition has made the products better. As a consumer, I will miss that competition. This is a complete master stroke for EA and guarantees that they will continue posting huge profits. This stabalizes one of their best sellers and their #1 year-in and year-out product. No other franchise is selling 3-5M copies a year like Madden. EA just guaranteed that they will pull in a profit every year in their most important franchise.

EA investors are probably jumping up and down at this point

 

[Brimstone]

EA has to pay for all of those licenses. EA probably won't charge for online play, except for tournaments and league play. Midway has no additional overhead, so they might offer tournaments and league play at a lower cost or for free. Maybe the retail price will be lower.

EA has to get a return on their investment and reports keep coming out about $60 dollar games.

Nothing is preventing Visual Concepts from taking their NFL2K engine and building something along the same lines as Blitz: The League. While it's true that there will be no competion between games with the NFL license, there is plenty of opportunity for fictional reality based American Football games to compete.

I think the fictional football universe may actually appeal to a bigger world wide audience if it's pulled off well. Does the average consumer in Europe care about who's the quaterback of the Atlanta Falcons? Square Soft has done an excellent job winning over fans world wide with their character design. Visual Concepts is a part of Take-Two now, so why not take a the opportunity to do some cross-over with Grand Theft Auto? Make the fictional league a part of the GTA universe. When you play the next GTA game, you could gamble on actual online tournament games. You go on a mission to pay off a player to throw a game, and the star player from the VC football game universe is involved. You accumulate enough money in the GTA game, you can buy a football franchise.

A Visual Concepts football interacting online in certain ways with GTA would be a step closer to a virtual world.

 

[DudeMiester]

Heh, the games have the potential to be more in depth because they aren't locked in by a license. Never thought of that, but a good point. Well I hope it works out that way, every nail counts when it comes to EA's coffin.

 

[Acert93]

I dunno...

Are you guys Pro Football and/or NCAA fans? How many games do you watch per week during the season? I ask because it seems, myself being a fan who watches the games and reads the paper to follow my favorite team, etc... I have completely no interest at all (absolutely none) in what you guys are talking about. NFL/NCAA fans kinda want to play games with their favorite teams and players... nature of the beast.

EA paid over $100M for licenses because they are valuable. I have a hard time believing that the ideas expressed are going to have any significant impact on EA at all--as a fan, I can tell you I don't see it.

Lets put it this way: Of all the people I know who I have asked not a single one is interested in a GTA Football world. They do not want a living world--that gets away from the core of the game they are paying for, specifically high quality pro football. They want a FOOTBALL game, specifically a game that replicates the 16 NFL games on Prime Time TV ever week.

Look at it this way: The NFL and NCAA dominate TV two full days a week (Saturday and Sunday). They also have one of the highest rated TV shows every week in Monday Night Football. MILLIONS of people spend every Sunday watching Pro Football games.

These people are interested in playing with the teams and players they root for--and they want to do that on the gridiron. I don't care a single bit about roaming the streets, trying to sack a cheerleader, or anything else. I want quality _football_ games on the field and related to the operation of the league and teams.

The millions of fans who root specifically for a single team, and spend dozens of hours watching the NFL or NCAA every week want just that in their games. While there may be other small niche markets, we are not talking about that. As a Football Gamer I want FOOTBALL GAME. I do not want watered down garbage on the field. There is so much that needs to be better on the field it is not funny... so while people can talk about other football spin offs, the Millions of football fans who passionately watch the NFL every Sunday and watch College ball every Saturday, the fans who pay for outrageously priced seats and hot dogs, they want Football Games, football games with their teams in it. And they wont be getting that from anyone but EA (and the lack of competition may mean a subpar product for consumers).

The $100M+ EA has shoveled out to obtain these licenses back up what I am saying. Blitz type games have always been limited because they are a fad (just like NBA Jam). They have a short, one time appeal. But the substance of sports games comes to their relationship to Football monopolies--i.e. Pro Football (the NFL) and collegiate (NCAA).

As a fan of NFL and NCAA teams, I can say safely say, on the behalf of millions of fans, there is no football outside of these leagues. AFL? XFL? Euro League? CFL? Drops in a bucket that most fans know nothing about. Quick: What are the CFL dimensions of a field? The rules relating to motion before the snap? Or even easier, who won lasts year championship game... and what is it called? Football fans who are buying football games have no clue about any of that because they do not care.

I am not denying that Midway may be able to make a cool game, but that is not the point: People want competition for pro football games, they want a choice of pro football games. Same goes with college.

EA paid hundreds of millions to get these deals for a reason--they are extremely valuable and knock out their competition. Someone may try to compete (always a question of production costs next gen), but unless someone makes a game substantually better than EA and EA messes up they wont have a chance. Pro Football and NCAA fans are avid about playing as their favorite teams and players. Any game without them has a huge uphill battle. I am willing to bet in 4 years no one makes a pro football sim, without the NFL/NFLPA license, to complete with EA on the home consoles. I see no money in it... and obviously EA agrees, or else they would not have bought the NFL, NFLPA, NCAA, ESPN, and AFL.

Kudos to EA, they cornered the pro football monopoly (the NFL) and the collegiate monopoly (NCAA) and make it near impossible for anyone to compete. EA stock holders must be estatic. They have effectively locked up football games for not 5-6 years (the length of the contrast) but 8-10 years while people try to catch up (if EA cannot extend the deal). To me, this stabalizes EA's position as a publisher for years to come. It keep one, sure fire success, every year for the next decade. Although EA sales have been fabulous the last couple years I see a lot of problems in their philosophy and I could see a slew of bad games/reviews really taking them the wrong direction. EA has very few stable franchises (they tend to buy, use up, discard) like a Mario, Zelda, Tekken, and so forth. They have some, but not a ton. EA just guaranteed almost a decade of a franchise, the NFL, that will give them a 3M-5M seller annually. With EA mentioning increased development costs resulting in higher prices next gen, with the heavy licenses and no competition we will probably see a $55-60 Madden. 5M copies a year, at $60, is huge even for EA. 6M Halo 2 sales put MS in the black for the X2 this fall. This is a smart, SMART, move by EA. And as other noted, no one has a chance to develop a football sim and compete in the NCAA, leveraging that tech for a 1) pro game with no license or b) to develop new tech to be ready in 2011 when the license expires. EA coverd all the bases for the short term and long term. EA stock should be through the roof at this time because this adds a huge amount of certainty for their future (publishers can hit nasty spells, even EA).

As a consumer I hate it though.

If I am wrong and someone is able to compete modestly in sales (i.e. enough to stay in business and make sequals) and make console/PC football games every year for the next 5 years then I will admitt I am wrong. But I have over $100M of EA's money betting that wont happen.