The Monopoly Discussions [2021]

[zed]

On the desktop nothing has changed.

Well its changed a bit, more than I thought. Latest share of desktop/laptop windows is 76.5%

I remember many years ago on these forums when it was something like webpages 10% mobile but increasing each month vs 90% desktop, this person declaring it would never go above 50% for mobile because noone would ever want to browse webpages on a mobile device

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

I don't follow this in the context of your original response. Google and Amazon both tried to sell themselves to other companies. Huh!?!

MS approached various companies to purchase them or release the games exclusively when they just started with Xbox, but a lot of companies turned them down because MS could write off Xbox if it failed, while other companies could just die.

You can't. You are limited by the API and kernel extensions that Microsoft support.

So stuff like Vulkan or OpenGL works through Windows API's or something?

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Well its changed a bit, more than I thought. Latest share of desktop/laptop windows is 76.5%

Hey, you're right. I hadn't really how much inboard macOS had made. 3 out of every 4 computers are running Windows though, that is still dominating.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

MS approached various companies to purchase them or release the games exclusively when they just started with Xbox, but a lot of companies turned them down because MS could write off Xbox if it failed, while other companies could just die.

I'm Stil not following. I responded to your comment of "I wonder if Amazon, Google, Facebook face the same issues that MS faced in the beginning for Xbox.". Amazon, Google and Facebook were scrounging around for money and in the case of Google and Amazon, they were looking to be sold. They didn't have any money to buy anybody else!?! I'm not seeing the equivalency you are suggesting?

So stuff like Vulkan or OpenGL works through Windows API's or something?

Yes, Windows obviously already has a driver model for graphics APIs.

 

[liams]

I'm Stil not following. I responded to your comment of "I wonder if Amazon, Google, Facebook face the same issues that MS faced in the beginning for Xbox.". Amazon, Google and Facebook were scrounging around for money and in the case of Google and Amazon, they were looking to be sold. They didn't have any money to buy anybody else!?! I'm not seeing the equivalency you are suggesting?



Yes, Windows obviously already has a driver model for graphics APIs.

I think what he means is that when xbox was first starting publishers werent excited about making games for it because it was an unproven thing that didnt have a known install base, it was a big risk for them to release games on the OG xbox at first. And that maybe amazon and google are facing the same problem.

I dont think any games have been released ''organically' on either stadia or luna yet, they have specifically been paid to be there. Whereas games get put on xbox/playstation/pc without the platform holder having to pay the devs

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Yes, Windows obviously already has a driver model for graphics APIs.

So when AMD or Nvidia write drivers for hardware they use Windows Driver model? Interesting. Didn't know.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

So when AMD or Nvidia write drivers for hardware they use Windows Driver model? Interesting. Didn't know.

Windows is pretty much the last closed operating system. Ask yourself, why doesn't Microsoft open it up? Think about this in the context of the last page of this thread. If you can't work it, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[BRiT]

Windows is pretty much the last closed operating system.

So MacOS is entirely open? And iOS? Every single aspect of them?

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Windows is pretty much the last closed operating system.

Windows is not the last closed operating system. By the level of freedom it will be probably go like Mac -> Windows -> Android.

Ask yourself, why doesn't Microsoft open it up? Think about this in the context of the last page of this thread. If you can't work it, I don't know what to tell you.

Because opening it means meaning turning into non-structured, non-standardized mess with a little QA oversight? Things that MS has constantly pushing since the ancient times are the standards and APIs.

The thing that MS was able achieve due to standardization is absolute incredible compatibility over the generations. Thanks to those standards (I presume even now in Windows 10 you can write software that would run on Windows 2000 or maybe 95). And any other successful OS - whether it is Android or MacOS or whatever, had success because of their internal standardization (even Android core arguably developed by Google in house and later available for public use or something). Now compare it with Linux...

I recently read https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html I would say thanks for some standards to exist.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

So MacOS is entirely open? And iOS? Every single aspect of them?

iOS isn't a desktop operating system. macOS is certainly more extensible than Windows because because you can install kernel extensions.

Come on man, you're better than this platform point-scoring crap.

Because opening it means meaning turning into non-structured, non-standardized mess with a little QA oversight? Things that MS has constantly pushing since the ancient times are the standards and APIs.

No. Apple fairly tightly control the design and architecture of macOS but you can install BSD kernel extensions beyond what Apple support through their driver model. macOS is a UNIX compliant OS. And great chunks of macOS is indeed open source and Apple contribute to the open source projects from which parts of macOS draw.

 

[BRiT]

iOS isn't a desktop operating system. macOS is certainly more extensible than Windows because because you can install kernel extensions.

Come on man, you're better than this platform point-scoring crap.

And I thought you were better than making unsubstantiated claims for your own platform point-scoring crap.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

but you can install BSD kernel extensions beyond what Apple support through their driver model.

But can't use achieve the same in Windows with its various system .dll files?

 

[Deleted member 11852]

And I thought you were better than making unsubstantiated claims for your own platform point-scoring crap.

What unsubstantiated claims?

But can't use achieve the same in Windows with its various system .dll files?

No, libraries utilise existing stubs. I'm guessing you've not done much Windows programming?

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

No, libraries utilise existing stubs. I'm guessing you've not done much Windows programming?

No I don't really deal with WinApi or whatever. I am on a higher level.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

They how did people create all those various pirate versions of Windows with custom loading screens, UI for for example Windows XP?

The Windows XP loading screen is a bitmap file. There are plenty of free tools to change it.

 

[tuna]

How much of an uproar would there be if game dev made an ultra super amazing driver that didn't use the windows driver API, that only supported their own game that completely broke every 6 months with each windows update? It would be even worse if someone like adobe made a similar driver for their creative suite, how many businesses would not be able to complete work if they suddenly couldn't use adobe products?

You make a driver to interface with a piece of hardware, not to run a specific program. There have been a lot of cases when drivers for one version of Windows do not work on later versions.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

You make a driver to interface with a piece of hardware, not to run a specific program. There have been a lot of cases when drivers for one version of Windows do not work on later versions.

Not to mention on Windows it's impossible to directly access the hardware, which is kind of the point. Some of the stuff being posted here is just ignorant lunacy.

 

[tuna]

Not to mention on Windows it's impossible to directly access the hardware, which is kind of the point. Some of the stuff being posted here is just ignorant lunacy.

How else would you write a driver?

 

[Deleted member 11852]

How else would you write a driver?

For applications.

 

[tuna]

For applications.

What kind of "driver" would that be?