How's this for an idea?

[BlueTsunami]

I personally think that Windows is so prevolant is because of deals made with Hardware vendors that general users buy from. Windows XP is pre loaded almost every single computer from HP, Dell etc so its just there. In my mind, I see it as the consumer not choosing XP..its just the only OS thats been there and the only OS they can choose from (on the PC front).

Linux can mimick Windows in every way and still stay much more secure than it is currently the only issue is that you have to proactivley go out, download/order Linux yourself. Thats the main reason Linux hasn't gotton a foothold...theres a reason most people think Microsoft with Windows holds a monopoly.

Also, imagine if the only way you could acquire Windows was through the internet? Imagine you had to either download the 600MB+ Installation disk or buy it yourself then install it yourself. Its just simply much more of a hassle.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Windows is prevalent now because MS made moves to kill the competition back when there was competition. Nowadays because the OS is so widespread you get all the developers writing to it - why write for a platform nobody uses? And then why get an OS that doesn't run all the software you own? I, like most people, have shelled out hundreds of quid, if not thousands, over the years on applications. Buying Linux would mean all those go to waste. That's why a replacement user OS will likely flunk. But a semi-OS, cut back to running standard services rather than any software you throw at it, might succeed IMO. Or an MS alternative where the software is as good, varied, and a tenth the price.

 

[scooby_dooby]

The biggest probl;em with this pipedream, IMO, is the assumption that a signifigant portion of people would actually prefer to do computer related tasks in their living room on their TV.

A mouse and a keyboard is the ideal way to browse the internet and I don't know too many people that have desks in their living room. And it's not very comfortable trying to use a mouse/kb on your coffee table.

Despite all the other technical reasons, such as lack of software, extremely limited choice between software that is available, more complex installations/uninstallations of software, the possiblity of a virus ruining your game machine, apps having to be re-written for CELL, despite all of those isssues, I think the main problem is lack of comfort.

Nobody really wants to browse the internet from their couch, the PC with a comfortable computer chair, and a nice desk will always be the preferred method. With all due respect, I don't see how anyone can seriously entertain this thought for more than 1 or 2 seconds. Even the X360 as a PC-like box in your living room with a full copy of windows would fail completely IMO, a PS3 linux box is not even on the radar.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Nobody really wants to browse the internet from their couch, the PC with a comfortable computer chair, and a nice desk will always be the preferred method. With all due respect, I don't see how anyone can seriously entertain this thought for more than 1 or 2 seconds. Even the X360 as a PC-like box in your living room with a full copy of windows would fail completely IMO, a PS3 linux box is not even on the radar.

First of all. I would like to browse the internet from the couch. There are times when I just want to catch up on information without having to turn on my PC and wade through the startup. The fact that its right there after I play a PS3 game makes it so easily assesible.

I understand about the whole comfortability thing but being able to do this on a larger than 19" screen makes it appealing to me.

What i'm wondering is how the OS will look being outputted to be big screen TV. IT would be cool if it was compareable to a standard computer monitor.

 

[ERP]

First of all. I would like to browse the internet from the couch. There are times when I just want to catch up on information without having to turn on my PC and wade through the startup. The fact that its right there after I play a PS3 game makes it so easily assesible.

I understand about the whole comfortability thing but being able to do this on a larger than 19" screen makes it appealing to me.

What i'm wondering is how the OS will look being outputted to be big screen TV. IT would be cool if it was compareable to a standard computer monitor.

My network player has a built in browser and it is a pain in the ass to use even on my 1080i TV.

The text is annoyingly fuzzy and general navigation is a pain.

I actually thing the revolutions controller would work pretty well for a web browser interface.

 

[BlueTsunami]

My network player has a built in browser and it is a pain in the ass to use even on my 1080i TV.

The text is annoyingly fuzzy and general navigation is a pain.

I actually thing the revolutions controller would work pretty well for a web browser interface.

Yeah, thats my only concern. With higher resolutions (above 800x600) the text would have to be blown up and some type of AA should be applied to the text to make it look nice and smooth. I hope that Sony has in mind the fact that the OS itself would be used on HDTVs not just CRT Monitors.

 

[scooby_dooby]

The rev's controller could be prety cool, cause it's very mouse-ish, but you still can't type. So, unless you already have everything previously bookmarked, I'm not sure how effectively you could browse.

I guess they could build in some sort of category basd search engine, like Grokster, but still, when it's all said and done, wouldn't you rather just have the full capabilities of your PC??

BlueTsunami - I hear you, from a totall "it would be cool if..." standpoint, I mean, sure it's kinda nifty, and in certain cases might be handy. But who's the market? Would you replace your current PC with a PS3? Would you be willing to pay $200 extra for this built-in capability when you have a PC that does the same thing?

And if web browsing is what we really want, why even bother with linux? Sony could simply design a web browser themselves and embed it on the machine. Why not port Opera to PS3?

I just REALLY fail to see where the market here is. Even if it's provided completely free of charge, and the somehow managed a way to let ordinary users install applications(provided they port/create these applications), it still wouldn't take off. Simply because everything, including simple link clicking is better done with a mouse+kb, and nobody has a computer desk sitting in the middle of their living room.

The only way I could see this even being in the realm of possibility, is if PS3 acted as your PC and had a Monitor-out to your computer desk. The PS3 could act as the tower, and you would simply need a KB+Mouse+Monitor and you would have a simplified PC, albeit extremely limited. It would be a cost saving option to some, anyoone looking to upgrade their PC might be interested, since their console could essentially act as their new PC.

But even in that scenario, big issues arise with viruses, software availability, customer support etc...

There's just no way this will EVER happen. No way.

 

[Squeak]

No, it would cost them a lot in manpower. Put the bundle together, put it on the harddrive, test if it works, provide customer support - and who would pay for it?

Putting the bundle together would not be more expensive than producing a budget game, and would result in more people buying the HDD, and the even better, the long-term benefit would be SCE getting a foot in the door in the house of GP computing, so to speak.
They do have to but some software on the HDD anyway, why not go that tiny bit further?

Linux had a lot of time to succeed on the PC, but it failed to do so. Tell me, why would anyone get interested in it just because it runs on a PS3?

The reason for Linux “failureâ€￾ (if only all failures were like that!) and microsofts monopoly are many faceted and have been answered better than I have time for now, in other posts in this thread.

why would they then spend who knows how much on it, if they can get a cheap PC well under $1000?

But a 1000$ PC wont play new games. The only reason PCs have grown so fast and so strong is because of games

Whats’s more, I think the PC world adopting a more console like hardware approach would be quite healthy. Introducing the same kind of long-term (5yr) generations in the PC world, for consumers who are tired of always worrying about when to buy and what to buy.
It would give a much-needed stability in both pricing, feeling of security and ease of programming.

And just where should you keep it? Would you move it into your study, on your desk - and play console games from there, instead of your couch in the living room? Or do word processing and video editing in front of your TV with the keyboard in your lap?

What do you do with your PC when gaming? Do drag the whole setup, minus monitor to the living room?
With the extra HDMI port you could have a computer, monitor, keyboard and mouse setup and then have a long cable to your TV.

No, I don't think that Sony would want to turn the PS3 into a personal computer. It just defeats the purpose of being a console...

SCE stands for Sony Computer Entertainment, not Console Entertainment.
SCE has always been very careful to refer to the Playstations as entertainment computers or something to that effect, and even more so with each new machine.

 

[one]

I personally think that Windows is so prevolant is because of deals made with Hardware vendors that general users buy from.

Yeah the driver issue is big. NVIDIA and ATI to begin with. Configuring X is really pain in the ass. Even though you buy a new hardware it's not guaranteed to run optimally on Linux or even work. Now, PS3 at least has NVIDIA on board so you don't have to worry about the GPU.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Putting the bundle together would not be more expensive than producing a budget game

Why are you so sure?

They do have to but some software on the HDD anyway, why not go that tiny bit further?

It is quite more than that. You seem to have missed customer support in my list for a start.

The reason for Linux “failure” (if only all failures were like that!) and microsofts monopoly are many faceted and have been answered better than I have time for now, in other posts in this thread.

I'm sorry but I can't take that as an answer. I still haven't seen anyone running Linux on his home PC except for one person, and I personally haven't used it in my entire life. And I'm both a hardcore gamer, an engineer with a degree in computer science, and a 3D artist for a living, so I do know a few people with PCs... Thus I dare say that Linux has totally failed to conquer the home user market. Please list arguments if you disagree.

But a 1000$ PC wont play new games. The only reason PCs have grown so fast and so strong is because of games

Neither would your PS3 play PC games... and if you want console games, you can get both, right? A dirt cheap PC and a console still wouldn't cost that much.
And please don't think that games and only games have driven the PC's growth - out of hundreds of millions of PCs, less than 10% is DX9 compliant today... but there are many industries that still hunger for more computing and graphics power.

Whats’s more, I think the PC world adopting a more console like hardware approach would be quite healthy. Introducing the same kind of long-term (5yr) generations in the PC world, for consumers who are tired of always worrying about when to buy and what to buy.

This is not good for the hardware manufacturers, for the software developers, and for all the workstation/server users of the world. The home PC market is too small to set directions for the entire industry.

What do you do with your PC when gaming? Do drag the whole setup, minus monitor to the living room?

I play different games on the PC, than I would want to on a console...

With the extra HDMI port you could have a computer, monitor, keyboard and mouse setup and then have a long cable to your TV.

Signal quality isn't an issue for you then? Long cables tend to have a bad effect on it.


I'm sorry but you're arguing with small details and fail to convince me about the bigger issues here. Trying to turn the PS3 into a personal computer has no gains for Sony at
all, while it would take a lot of money and other resources to do so, and it wouldn't gain any interest from the vast majority of their market. I can totally understand why some people would like to see it happen, but I don't think that we'll see it...

 

[silhouette]

My network player has a built in browser and it is a pain in the ass to use even on my 1080i TV.

The text is annoyingly fuzzy and general navigation is a pain.

I actually thing the revolutions controller would work pretty well for a web browser interface.

I connect my PC to my TV (720p) a couple of times. Eventhough the text is crisp and clean, my eyes started to hurt after two hours of use. TVs are simply not suitable for this kind of task (especially your background is white).

However, what if you connect your computer-PS3 to your monitor (the same scenario we used to with Amiga back in old days). If you want to play game, connect to your TV. If you want to use it as a computer, connect to your monitor.

Btw, the linux on PS3 might not be that hard to implement. They can make the implementation so that only PPE is used by the kernel. Also, they only have to implement device drivers for the hardware in PS3, not for N different hardware from M different manufacturer.

I think this would be dream machine for a coder. However, for widespread use, I cannot see it successful unless they also provide all type of applications that people use for their daily tasks (i.e. office, browser, IM, etc.).

 

[one]

And if web browsing is what we really want, why even bother with linux? Sony could simply design a web browser themselves and embed it on the machine. Why not port Opera to PS3?

FYI, PSP already has a web browser called NetFront embedded in its firmware. It's the de facto standard of a web browser in embedded/consumer electronics space. PS3 will most likely have this browser too.

The only way I could see this even being in the realm of possibility, is if PS3 acted as your PC and had a Monitor-out to your computer desk.

Buy an HDMI-DVI adapter, and you're ready.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Buy an HDMI-DVI adapter, and you're ready.

No. Sony need to create a library of Applications that will give the PS3 the capabilty to act as a 'meaningful' PC, invest tons of money into customer support, ensure virus protection, and provide drivers for all my peripherals.

Then it's ready!

Even after all that, you get a weak PC with hardly any software available.

 

[one]

I think this would be dream machine for a coder. However, for widespread use, I cannot see it successful unless they also provide all type of applications that people use for their daily tasks (i.e. office, browser, IM, etc.).

If the RTE/DRM issue is cleared, Redhat, Suze, or whoever willing to make money or volunteer can supply distributions and support I guess.

No. Sony need to create a library of Applications that will give the PS3 the capabilty to act as a 'meaningful' PC, invest tons of money into customer support, ensure virus protection, and provide drivers for all my peripherals.

As for applications please read my reply to Powderkeg in this same thread.
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=610062&postcount=25

As for customer support, Sony already have big support centers. You know currently they are even selling Windows PC called VAIO loaded with Sony-created applications, don't you?
Virus protection is ridiculous. Just look at MS Windows

 

[BlueTsunami]

No. Sony need to create a library of Applications that will give the PS3 the capabilty to act as a 'meaningful' PC, invest tons of money into customer support, ensure virus protection, and provide drivers for all my peripherals.

Then it's ready!

Even after all that, you get a weak PC with hardly any software available.

All the software made for Linux is basicaly able to be easily ported over to the PS3, which is quite alot!. Drivers and Peripherals are a non issue. Why? Because the PS3 itself is a closed system. What they would essentially be doing is the same thing Apple does with Macs. They don't need to worry about driver support becuase what you get with the PS3 is what your going to stay with.

Also....this is Linux we're talking. Virus's aren't as prevolant (possibly almost non existent) as a Windows system. Also, Microsoft themselves are implimenting a user system that allows you to be in command of your system but break away the admin functions so that when you need to do administrative stuff it asks for the admins password. This is something thats been implimented in Linux for a long time (Root access should never be used as a regular user account).

 

[rajeev84]

I think many people are not really seeing the big picture here.

I for one know with certaintity that this topic is one that SCE is widely concerned with. Now, it's doubtful there'd take any drastic approach as making a stand alone PS3/PC. The reasons i think may include backlash from the entire PC industry. Many hardware manufacturors may not like this at all. However, if implemented properly, a lot could benefit.


Ken Kutagari has always spoke about the PS2 becoming a basically a poor mans PC. What stopped him? Basically i think his idea was ahead of its time. However, the time is ripe now. PC processessing power isn't really a limiting factor any more. CPU's from 3 years ago can still hold their own in mostly everything aside from games.


Sony + Google + Linux + Mozilla = End of Microsoft OS Monopoly? (obviously not instantly, but within a few years, is it possible for Sony to capture atleast a 10% share of the PC market?)

 

[MoeStooge]

I think many people are not really seeing the big picture here.

I for one know with certaintity that this topic is one that SCE is widely concerned with. Now, it's doubtful there'd take any drastic approach as making a stand alone PS3/PC. The reasons i think may include backlash from the entire PC industry. Many hardware manufacturors may not like this at all. However, if implemented properly, a lot could benefit.


Ken Kutagari has always spoke about the PS2 becoming a basically a poor mans PC. What stopped him? Basically i think his idea was ahead of its time. However, the time is ripe now. PC processessing power isn't really a limiting factor any more. CPU's from 3 years ago can still hold their own in mostly everything aside from games.


Sony + Google + Linux + Mozilla = End of Microsoft OS Monopoly? (obviously not instantly, but within a few years, is it possible for Sony to capture atleast a 10% share of the PC market?)

The only way for Sony to make real money in such an endeavor is to become a monopoly themselves (which is something they are just as disposed to do as Microsoft). No thank you. I prefer the nice, open PC architectures we have now where I can put together my own PC using whatever components I want and install whatever OS I want.

 

[Fafalada]

I'm sorry but I can't take that as an answer. I still haven't seen anyone running Linux on his home PC except for one person, and I personally haven't used it in my entire life. And I'm both a hardcore gamer, an engineer with a degree in computer science, and a 3D artist for a living

Actually I'm under impression that IT professionals are one of the least likely to use Linux (or multiple OSs) at home (while using windows at work). It's a simple manner of convenience - personally I just want to use my PC - not spend all my time tinkering with it, especially outside work hours.
And as great many Windows-Only users demonstrate, you can already waste all your time on endlessly tinkering with a single-OS machine - although one could very well argue Windows PCs are the worst offender in that area to start with.

Thus I dare say that Linux has totally failed to conquer the home user market. Please list arguments if you disagree.

Well by and far majority of home users would be using pre-installed systems. How many PC shops even offer the option of Linux OS on the machine?

 

[jvd]

I think many people are not really seeing the big picture here.

I for one know with certaintity that this topic is one that SCE is widely concerned with. Now, it's doubtful there'd take any drastic approach as making a stand alone PS3/PC. The reasons i think may include backlash from the entire PC industry. Many hardware manufacturors may not like this at all. However, if implemented properly, a lot could benefit.


Ken Kutagari has always spoke about the PS2 becoming a basically a poor mans PC. What stopped him? Basically i think his idea was ahead of its time. However, the time is ripe now. PC processessing power isn't really a limiting factor any more. CPU's from 3 years ago can still hold their own in mostly everything aside from games.


Sony + Google + Linux + Mozilla = End of Microsoft OS Monopoly? (obviously not instantly, but within a few years, is it possible for Sony to capture atleast a 10% share of the PC market?)

If u want a cheap pc than they can make a cheap pc .

athlon xp / sempron on an nforce 2 board with 512 megs of ram and a 300 gig drive would come in at under 400$ if not less .

 

[Powderkeg]

Well by and far majority of home users would be using pre-installed systems. How many PC shops even offer the option of Linux OS on the machine?

HP sells it preinstalled, and companies like Gateway and Dell provide it as an optional OS.

No one buys it though. The lack of Linux sales isn't a problem with a lack of distribution, it's a problem with lack of demand. If enough people wanted it, I guarantee you OEM manufacturers would offer it.