How's this for an idea?

[Shifty Geezer]

As for dumbing down the app for the mass...it depends on how you define what sort of app the vast majority of users use. Which I belive is still a lot. Browser, word processor, spreadsheet, email, simple photo editing...but still how do they plan to make money?

If the only way to gain access to programs for PS3 were through a content portal, Sony could test programs submitted for inclusion to see they're not dangerous and then release, taking a cut of every sale, the same as they can for all media content. Being a middleman merchant is the most profitable occupation in the world, making money for mostly other people's work.

As for computing in the living room, if it works well I might buy a second and run it upstairs on a monitor. By run well, if the media apps are fully optimized for Cell and get the performance. If it doesn't considerably faster than my PC then I won't bother.

At the moment I run Win2k. It's alright. There'sa few bugs with the system which I can't be botherd to fix as overall it's working. I've the firewall, virus killer etc. going and can use it without needing constant maintenance. But I don't download software and try various demos which doing a lot of can duff Windows in.

To the contrary, my mum runs a similar machine and I constantly have to give advice and explain things. See can't comfortably work Windows. Neither can some 90% of the people I've met, including running IT support. A Sony PS3PC should be targetted at these people offering a single box solution where they don't need to worry anything about how to uninstall software the right way, how to update the virus killer, what a firewall is and how to use it, how to update their graphics driver and how to revert to an older driver when the new one screws up an old application, how to solve an issue when you install an application and it doesn't run without telling you why (which was a strip and reuild BTW)...there's a million unneccesary complications that could be removed. Heck it needn't be Sony to solve this. Apple are going halfway. People at least Apple's are easier and are starting to buy them for that reason. I've been tempted myself in the past with the crap Windows have given me at times. A computer for simple people is a fantastic idea and one that could work IMO, though I doubt Sony will pull it off. And if they go with open Linux, a full OS, that'll just confuse people more than Windows, which at least they know partly how to use. Money spent to no gain I think.

 

[London Geezer]

My responce was more towards those were it atleast "sounded" that the PS3+Linux = goodbye PC+MS

Sure it couls act as a trojan horse, the question is, how much will it cost?

You see if they sell it, they will have to support it. They will have to see that the programs are all working OK. Especially with free software, that everyone has been touting as the savior of mankind, I really don't expect any form of support from the software manufacturer. So when little Jonny (or whatever his name is) downloads some free program and installes it and messes up the system who to call? Sony, and they will be like :"wtf, we haven't even heard of that program"

And what happens when viruses come out for this thing, because if there is one thing that is certain, is that if it becomes successful, virus will come like flies to honey.

And once again who will be the market? And how would you be able to make money out of them?

The thing is I see a lot of problems associated with this with minisicule benefits for Sony, because in the end of the day, what is the benefit for Sony?

It will be extremely interesting to see after the launch of PS3, how many in this forum will be doing their posting on a their PS3s rather than their PCs...

The PC will probably never "die".
However it's safe to assume that many people will be more than happy with their PS3 in the livingroom, a wireless keyboard and mouse to use on the sofa and do some simple tasks that don't need to be done on a desk.
I would consider using my HDTV for internet browsing and other simple things i do today on my PC. Keep a wireless KB/Mouse there somewhere for when i need it and go from there.
My PC will still be there to be used for all those things you can only do on a PC.

 

[Platon]

The problem is, you're arguing two different things at the same time. You can't argue one companies desire (to have a monopoly) with what the consumer thinks about it. You should decide what you want to argue:

- Shall we argue the benefits for a company such as Sony to control the livingroom and perhaps grab a bit of share from the PC segment by people that won't need to upgrade their PC anymore to satisfy their basic computer needs (basically email & internet access).

- or shall we argue what's best for the consumer?

The reason that I brought up the monopoly stuff, is because that that is one of the ways that I can find this whole thing being benefitial to Sony. Really, selling a machine at loss (PS3) with free OS and programs, where is the benefit for Sony, other than in the long run maybe becomming a monopoly by itself.

You see a lot of forumers here see MS as the evil empire with a monopoly, so here comes the PS3+Linux to save as all with its free programs, FREE programs. Now maybe Sony is doing all this because they are the holy, good hearted company that people think they are, but I doubt it. So my question is directed to the people here, why is it better to exchange one monopoly to another?

As for the benefits, dissadvantages and what ever else for the general consumer I don't debatte here...

 

[Phil]

Platon;

No one is talking about selling a full PC with PS3. The general concious is that they will offer very basic functions that will already satisfy a large segment of casuals that simply want to browse the web, check emails or view photos they've just taken moments before from their digital camera (or handycam). Why on earth would they use a PC if all they want is to view their holiday pictures on the TV screen where everyone can join in without being cramped infront of an old computer?


EDIT: JUst saw your reply:

What makes you think the programs are free? As I said, no one is talking about a PS3 that acts like a full PC.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

So my question is directed to the people here, why is it better to exchange one monopoly to another?

Because MS's monopoly has given me so much grief over the years I want a different company to monopolise witha better product. I don't care about monopolies as such. As long as the product is good at a price I think fair, who gives a flying monkey if there's a rival product or not?

 

[London Geezer]

A Monopoly is never good, whether your favourite company is the monopoly or not.

Having said that, I get the feeling that Sony don't want to be a monopoly as much as MS do, or at least they have given me no reason to believe they want to pursue that route, or at least not as much as MS, which have shown over the years very questionable ways to do business to try to become a monopoly.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

A Monopoly is never good, whether your favourite company is the monopoly or not.

Maybe not, but if you are going to have a monopoly, some monopolies are better than others.

 

[London Geezer]

Maybe not, but if you are going to have a monopoly, some monopolies are better than others.

Maybe in the short term you'd enjoy whatever your company gives you, but in the long term, you'd change your mind. Monopolies create all sorts of anti-consumer policies, because the company is in the position to pretty much do whatever they want... Just look at what MS is doing with Windows and their licensing system, just to pick one thing.

 

[Platon]

I might be missunderstanding this whole thing, but having Linux on the system, doesn't that just open up a whole can a worms. Won't people be able to browse the web, download whatever linux programs, install them and stuff? I could see this working by having something like live which is a closed system, but as far as I know Sony doesn't have that kind of service yet. As for connecting cameras and stuff to the TV dn't they do it by them selfs? Do you need a PS3?...

 

[London Geezer]

I'm still not sure what your problem with the whole idea is. If you don't like the idea, don't buy it! Seems like you just don't want to be convinced. If you don't want the thing, you're not interested or just don't want to use a PC-like thing in your livingroom, no one's forcing you.
People are seeing the good side in this, you aren't, whatever we say.

 

[one]

Linux for the PS2 has been available for a while now. It's not an underground hack. It's an official product. My point is that it isn't in Sony best interest to support such business model. They want you to play games (and buy games), they make money on the royalities.

As for dumbing down the app for the mass...it depends on how you define what sort of app the vast majority of users use. Which I belive is still a lot. Browser, word processor, spreadsheet, email, simple photo editing...but still how do they plan to make money?

As if selling hardware like Apple / Sun do didn't make money...

I might be missunderstanding this whole thing, but having Linux on the system, doesn't that just open up a whole can a worms.

Cell can run multiple OSs simultaneously... Your Linux in HDD was messed up? Then wipe it, PS3's main realtime OS is always intact in its flash-memory firmware. Linux and other OS are just one of applications on PS3.

 

[rabidrabbit]

...
Sure it couls act as a trojan horse, the question is, how much will it cost?

You see if they sell it, they will have to support it. They will have to see that the programs are all working OK. Especially with free software, that everyone has been touting as the savior of mankind, I really don't expect any form of support from the software manufacturer. So when little Jonny (or whatever his name is) downloads some free program and installes it and messes up the system who to call? Sony, and they will be like :"wtf, we haven't even heard of that program"
...

I personally don't think they'd allow you to install much software on the PS3 by yourself.

It could come already preinstalled with the needed software by Sony, like a stripped down Sony Vegas video editing suite, some photoeditor/album, music/video players, messaging software, webbrowser/email.
Those would be all the software the average user would need in his/her livingroom.

I don't believe it'll be a full open Linux where you could pretty much install anything you find from the web, but something built upon a Linux core by Sony and maybe in collaboration with IBM.

It would be pretty much a a closed system for the user, only software you'd be able to install would be the official updates by Sony, which might introduce new functuionalities just like the PSP webbrowser update.

That would not need too expensive support. I'd guess the PSP software support is pretty thin too.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Maybe in the short term you'd enjoy whatever your company gives you, but in the long term, you'd change your mind. Monopolies create all sorts of anti-consumer policies, because the company is in the position to pretty much do whatever they want... Just look at what MS is doing with Windows and their licensing system, just to pick one thing.

Or Sony installing secret hidden rootkit software when you play a music CD...
http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/10/sony-rootkits-and-digital-rights.html

The whole world should boycott all these companies until they decide to behave

 

[one]

Or Sony installing secret hidden rootkit software when you play a music CD...
http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/10/sony-rootkits-and-digital-rights.html

It looks one of the reasons why you should use Linux instead of Windows. j/k

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Well at least is Sony owned the OS they wouldn't feel the need to sneakily control DRM. They could include it as standard

 

[Platon]

I'm still not sure what your problem with the whole idea is. If you don't like the idea, don't buy it! Seems like you just don't want to be convinced. If you don't want the thing, you're not interested or just don't want to use a PC-like thing in your livingroom, no one's forcing you.
People are seeing the good side in this, you aren't, whatever we say.

I was just replying to those that said it would act as a PC, I just think it will not. It is not that I don't see the good points in it, because in a perfect world it is an excellent idea, sure it would be cool, to just exit your game for a while, browse the net a bit, maybe looking for tips on the game you are just playing, or talking with some friends over MSN and then go back to play. Having Linux on your system though, being able to install free programs and doing your work there, as people have been suggesting just seems to me as if Sony is begging for trouble with no benefits what so ever for them. Not saying that I am not a pesimist...

 

[London Geezer]

I was just replying to those that said it would act as a PC, I just think it will not. It is not that I don't see the good points in it, because in a perfect world it is an excellent idea, sure it would be cool, to just exit your game for a while, browse the net a bit, maybe looking for tips on the game you are just playing, or talking with some friends over MSN and then go back to play. Having Linux on your system though, being able to install free programs and doing your work there, as people have been suggesting just seems to me as if Sony is begging for trouble with no benefits what so ever for them. Not saying that I am not a pesimist...

That's it, it would most probably not be a "work" thing. It would be a kind of Media Center device, and as such, it could be quite successful.
And even IF it were to become a work thing, why would it hurt Sony? Not many people would use the PS3 to "work", but the whole thing wouldn't "be trouble" for Sony and i'm not sure why you think it would.
It's just an optional feature, much like the Linux kit for PS2, which some people bought to develop their own software and try things out on PS2. It surely didn't hurt Sony, even though only about 10k units were made and sold IIRC.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

As a work thing, that idea is totally contrary to KK's vision. His original concept was that people were using a computer designed as a workstation for their playing. By his reckoning a computer designed for the activities of 'playing' (all entertainments) would be better suited for the task and to that end developed PlayStation to satisfy the role not ideally solved by the WorkStation.

Turning a PS3, designed for play, media, games, music, hobbies like digital photography, into a machine for work, doing spreadsheets, finances, etc., is contradictory.

 

[TrungGap]

You're not reading what he's saying. The average user doesn't even know that you can get Linux on PS2, let alone the fact that it's entirely sold through one single website. Not as if the average joe would care anyway, since the majority of people don't know how to use Linux in the first place! The Linux kit is targeted at a very different market segment (hobby programmers and developers), in other words a niche product.

What Vince is talking about is if PS3 can provide built in functionality with PS3 that could make a PC redundant for many of those average users.

Like I said, it's a different business model. If you read my posts, you would realized I covered from free PC companies to dumbing down app on the PS3. However, by doing so, people will buy the machine as an email/browser/etc appliance. It would target a different demographics...ei granda/grandpa, who would less likely to buy large library of games.

 

[TrungGap]

As if selling hardware like Apple / Sun do didn't make money...

Totally different business model. They don't sell the hardware at a loss. Eh, I take that back...most of the time they don't sell the hardware at a loss.

Secondly, why would STI want to use PS3 as a computer/workstation? They already have plans for a Cell based workstation...and more importantly a real viable business model. Let's see now how many web/email/etc appliance companies out there are really successful? Very few. There are some in Europe, and its succes has nothing to do with technical power. It's a lot of wheeling and dealing with the public sector.