How to sell next-gen consoles, Marketing, Positioning, and Pricing [2020]

[Deleted member 11852]

Maybe we shouldn’t refer to journalists like jason and links, he was dead wrong on the ps5 specs. Last time linking to devs and sources didnt go so well. Otherwise theres a ton of sources, devs and journalists incoming

I don't think I've ever seen Jason Schreier talk specifically about PS5's specifications? He is a journalist who has always been upfront about his lack of technical knowledge on matters of hardware, deferring to his sources which are typically developers of AA/AAA studios. He reiterated this lot on the Kotaku 'Splitscreen' podcast whenever nextgen speculation came up.

Can you provide a link? I am interested to read this.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

i could be wrong but isn't it 2.4 vs 5.5 before any compression from either side of which we both know they each do ?

It's a hypothetical question based on a premise that the underlying systems are notably different. This isn't a thread to compare and contrast the next-gen tech specs, but to discuss how one can sell a console and leverage its advantages.

Thanks for the correction, I greatly misunderstood what Mr Cerny said.

Note this isn't a thread about next-gen tech implementations, but how to sell (market) a next gen console based on its advantages. We can't discuss the real world marketing because we can't know what the actual real world differences are until these consoles launch.

Last month on resetera Jason Schreier said he'd heard PS5's OS has been designed for games to be as accessible as watching a Netflix movie and Sony call this "Direct Gameplay". A link to the patent about how this words is in the resetera thread.

Similarly, we aren't linking to sources as proof of anything any more (this might warrant a sticky). That degrades very quickly in quote-wars and debates about who are and aren't reliable witnesses. A discussion like this one can stick to hypotheticals. Technical threads can discuss technical ideas raised from quotes.

 

[London Geezer]

But how does Joe Gamer know what they're missing out of? How would they know Doom Eternal+1 is that much faster on the other machine such that they'd buy the faster-loading machine?

But I’m not talking about different platforms.

Ultimately it’s all “quality of life”. People - yes, even Joe Gamer - will notice the lack of loading times, when they’ve spent pretty much their whole gaming life since cartridges waiting for something to load.

I don’t really care if X loads faster or slower compared to PS5. And I won’t even have a way to test that.

But I, and everyone else, will notice that when I fast travel in HZD I won’t have to wait for a very ugly loading screen to go away.

 

[London Geezer]

Lines could become more blurred if PS5 does not have Quick Resume when we know Series X does.

Needless to say, it will be tough for Marketing to show this is an important enough difference to overlook the other features.

But it does.

 

[BRiT]

But it does.

It's hard to know for certain because it hasn't been shown to the public.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

But I’m not talking about different platforms.

Isn't that what this thread is about? How the difference machines are going to be marketed?

 

[Jay]

I can tell you that for me if we are talking about my pc and I have the option of spending to get a 4 second load time vs an 8 second load time or even 12 second load time vs getting a stable 60fp or getting to he next resolution then I will go to with the second option. I don't think i'd even notice a 4 second vs 8 second load time.

Why would one have stable framerate and the other not?

I think the SSD speed and the 2TF difference will more than likely become a positive dependent on what platform you was most interested in from the start. Human nature.

As i said i would give up some power for ssd speed, but neither the speed or the TF is big enough difference to outweigh other things as a whole.

So even though I said the slower loading (that includes level restarts etc) is irritating, doesn't mean it outweighs the whole package.

As for how will Average Joe will know. The same way they will know which is more powerful.
Marketing, friends, reviews etc, it will be:
The fastest console vs most powerfull console

I would argue that fastest may actually be easiest to demonstrate, compared to 2160p vs 1800p+
It's up to MS to make the power argument work.

 

[eastmen]

Why would one have stable framerate and the other not?

I think the SSD speed and the 2TF difference will more than likely become a positive dependent on what platform you was most interested in from the start. Human nature.

As i said i would give up some power for ssd speed, but neither the speed or the TF is big enough difference to outweigh other things as a whole.

So even though I said the slower loading (that includes level restarts etc) is irritating, doesn't mean it outweighs the whole package.

As for how will Average Joe will know. The same way they will know which is more powerful.
Marketing, friends, reviews etc, it will be:
The fastest console vs most powerfull console

I would argue that fastest may actually be easiest to demonstrate, compared to 2160p vs 1800p+
It's up to MS to make the power argument work.

why wouldn't a 9-10tflop machine not get worse frame rates or resolution than a 12tflop ? I can tell you a 5700 gets worse performance than a 5700x

Consumers have been conditioned to know that higher resolution and higher framerates are better , your going to have to re-educate consumers on load times , which is something no one has cared about since the move from cart to optical since load times have been horrendous on consoles.

I'd argue that a game that is locked at 60fps will feel much better than a game that has a fluctuating frame rate. When your playing and suddenly performance gets glitchy or lags that's going to be a more noticeable effect.

But hey who knows what system will load faster or perform better. The difference between the set ups in loading may be 2-4 seconds

 

[Jay]

why wouldn't a 9-10tflop machine not get worse frame rates or resolution than a 12tflop ? I can tell you a 5700 gets worse performance than a 5700x

Consumers have been conditioned to know that higher resolution and higher framerates are better , your going to have to re-educate consumers on load times , which is something no one has cared about since the move from cart to optical since load times have been horrendous on consoles.

I'd argue that a game that is locked at 60fps will feel much better than a game that has a fluctuating frame rate. When your playing and suddenly performance gets glitchy or lags that's going to be a more noticeable effect.

But hey who knows what system will load faster or perform better. The difference between the set ups in loading may be 2-4 seconds

You might generally get higher resolution.
But no, TF difference doesn't mean more stable framerate, it depends on the decisions made by the dev. In fact could easily try to push the higher TF machine game beyond what it can comfortably do.
A 5700 vs 5700x will be dependent if both are running at same resolution, settings etc. Which i don't expect in the console space, and if they do then it's possible that xsx is just leaving power on the table if the lead platform was ps5.

Even if the difference is 2 seconds, you could argue that it's insignificant and I wouldn't argue against your view, but that will still be easier to demonstrate than the resolution difference that is likely to be the case between the two consoles.

Also no rededucating needed, both will say 4k, as the current mid gen does. Its not going to say 2160p, and 1800p on the box, or most reviews even.

 

[London Geezer]

Isn't that what this thread is about? How the difference machines are going to be marketed?

All these next gen threads are a lot to keep up with! Sorry.

 

[BRiT]

But no, TF difference doesn't mean more stable framerate, it depends on the decisions made by the dev.

It might happen when you have a faster static clocked CPU compared to one that throttles down?

 

[PSman1700]

But I, and everyone else, will notice that when I fast travel in HZD I won’t have to wait for a very ugly loading screen to go away.

Then it doesn't matter what console one gets.

I would argue that fastest may actually be easiest to demonstrate, compared to 2160p vs 1800p+
It's up to MS to make the power argument work.

MS's console will load/stream games just as quick as the PS5 will do.

why wouldn't a 9-10tflop machine not get worse frame rates or resolution than a 12tflop ? I can tell you a 5700 gets worse performance than a 5700x

True, there's people that want a 2080Ti over a 2080, for just that better performance across the board.

But no, TF difference doesn't mean more stable framerate,

True, it also mostly means higher settings aswell, we have seen this lately happening on current consoles. Games tend to scale very well these days, way beyond FPS and resolutions. We also have ray tracing entering the market, besides alot of other features.

 

[eastmen]

You might generally get higher resolution.
But no, TF difference doesn't mean more stable framerate, it depends on the decisions made by the dev. In fact could easily try to push the higher TF machine game beyond what it can comfortably do.
A 5700 vs 5700x will be dependent if both are running at same resolution, settings etc. Which i don't expect in the console space, and if they do then it's possible that xsx is just leaving power on the table if the lead platform was ps5.

Even if the difference is 2 seconds, you could argue that it's insignificant and I wouldn't argue against your view, but that will still be easier to demonstrate than the resolution difference that is likely to be the case between the two consoles.

Also no rededucating needed, both will say 4k, as the current mid gen does. Its not going to say 2160p, and 1800p on the box, or most reviews even.

is there something stoping the XSX from targeting the same resolution as the ps5 ?

This isn't the ps2 and ps3 era . Most games now come out on the pc also and they will be tuning for a lot of different configurations. So nothing will be left on the table for the faster of the two systems.

Every generation has had a system that ends up with better 3rd party games.

 

[PSman1700]

This isn't the ps2 and ps3 era .

Resolution seems to be less of a problem these days, look at VRS and DLSS etc, and the other tech XSX has. Everything scales these days, even the switch gets games like doom and wolfenstein. Those extra TF's might go to a higher resolution, but most likely also higher settings. The big differences will be in exclusives though, titles like HB2, where the full 12+TF's will be put to use, combine that with their patented vrs, sampler feedback and compression tech for the ssd, the hellblade 2 demo will be baseline.

 

[eastmen]

Resolution seems to be less of a problem these days, look at VRS and DLSS etc, and the other tech XSX has. Everything scales these days, even the switch gets games like doom and wolfenstein. Those extra TF's might go to a higher resolution, but most likely also higher settings. The big differences will be in exclusives though, titles like HB2, where the full 12+TF's will be put to use, combine that with their patented vrs, sampler feedback and compression tech for the ssd, the hellblade 2 demo will be baseline.

The only reason this will matter is if one of the companies have this scaling tech and the others don't. If both sony and MS has a dlss like thing , then the end of the day the 12tflop machine is still more powerful and you can see it in Nvidia's cards that more powerful cards with more compute units and tensor cores do this faster than the ones with less.

The power difference wont change.

I think just like with the xbox one and ps4 the proof will be in the pudding and the early multiplatform games will play better on the more powerful system.

 

[Jay]

It might happen when you have a faster static clocked CPU compared to one that throttles down?

Sure and there may be something inherent in xsx design that causes problems also. Who knows, I'm taking both companies at face value. I'm not going to say that their version of smart shift doesn't work as advertised. Even if it doesn't, how much power do you think it will loose? Down to just bellow 1800p to give a consistent fps (and to be fair 1800p is what I reckoned when I thought the fixed speed was 9TF)

MS's console will load/stream games just as quick as the PS5 will do.

What is that based on? Is it possible, sure it is. But MS hasn't given any figures to suggest that's the case. Although i do expect streaming to be closer possibly, but until we know more, that's just an assumption by me. No more no less, and not something I'd use in a discussion.

True, there's people that want a 2080Ti over a 2080, for just that better performance across the board.

Yep and on pc you can tweak games to your hearts content. Most people buying console doesn't have the same mindset.

This isn't the ps2 and ps3 era . Most games now come out on the pc also and they will be tuning for a lot of different configurations. So nothing will be left on the table for the faster of the two systems.

I can agree with this. It's more like the mid gen, where game difference will likely be very minor, usually resolution difference and the odd setting.
But unless something like RT is twice as fast in one console, then how many people can truly see huge differences in AO settings?

Ass for nothing being left on table, happens all the time. Especially for whichever isn't the lead platform.
Anyway, the reason i said left on the table is if ps5 is at 4k stable fps, and xsx is at 4k then 2TF isn't that much left to do much at such high resolution. Reconstruction techniques may allow you to make more use of it though.

Is anything stopping devs choosing 4k for ps5, no but resolution is the fastest, simplest, hardest to notice, way to claw back performance.

 

[BRiT]

Yeah, so many theoretical situations of what might happen.

Overall, I think it's all overblown as you have The Best Sony Console and The Best Microsoft Console, which will be enough to sell each respective system.

 

[eastmen]

Yep and on pc you can tweak games to your hearts content. Most people buying console doesn't have the same mindset.
I can agree with this. It's more like the mid gen, where game difference will likely be very minor, usually resolution difference and the odd setting.
But unless something like RT is twice as fast in one console, then how many people can truly see huge differences in AO settings?

Ass for nothing being left on table, happens all the time. Especially for whichever isn't the lead platform.
Anyway, the reason i said left on the table is if ps5 is at 4k stable fps, and xsx is at 4k then 2TF isn't that much left to do much at such high resolution. Reconstruction techniques may allow you to make more use of it though.

Is anything stopping devs choosing 4k for ps5, no but resolution is the fastest, simplest, hardest to notice, way to claw back performance.

You know whats a big thing that has been advertised to hell and back the last 5 or 6 years ? Frame rate. Advertising for it is every where , last generation it was 30 vs 60fps and now people buy 240hz monitors and try to max out the frame rate there.

So do you think people can see the difference between for example a locked 30 vs locked 60 ? what about a fluctuating fps vs 60 locked or 90 vs 60 and so on and so forth? The peformcne difference between the consoles will come out in different ways.

In regards to nothing left on the table, I don't agree. It used to happen but you can see from many of the ports that devs push the xbox one x further than the ps4 pro and both get pushed further than the xbox one and ps4. Heck even at launch of the xbox one and ps4 they made sure the ps4 performed and let it run higher res and better frame rates than the xbox one.

 

[PSman1700]

What is that based on? Is it possible, sure it is. But MS hasn't given any figures to suggest that's the case. Although i do expect streaming to be closer possibly, but until we know more, that's just an assumption by me. No more no less, and not something I'd use in a discussion.

Well, there is nothing that it isn't as fast. They went with different design goals from the beginning. Saying the PS5 is going to have faster speeds regarding storage is also an assumption. Like i said, MS has a slower drive, but faster compression tech to make up for it. Different approaches, one went for a faster drive, other for better compression. For PS5, the heavy load is on its SSD, for MS the load is shifted to other hardware.

Most people buying console doesn't have the same mindset.

Say that to the people buying a Pro over a vanilla PS4, or even One x over Pro. I agree that most don't care and buy the brand they like, but there's a reason manufacturers boast 'the most powerfull' in their PR.

Is anything stopping devs choosing 4k for ps5, no but resolution is the fastest, simplest, hardest to notice, way to claw back performance.

Devs could opt for higher or more advanced settings for the XSX versions, since resolution is hard to notice the difference, in special with todays reconstruction technologies.

 

[Rangers]

Why would one have stable framerate and the other not?

I think the SSD speed and the 2TF difference will more than likely become a positive dependent on what platform you was most interested in from the start. Human nature.

As i said i would give up some power for ssd speed, but neither the speed or the TF is big enough difference to outweigh other things as a whole.

So even though I said the slower loading (that includes level restarts etc) is irritating, doesn't mean it outweighs the whole package.

As for how will Average Joe will know. The same way they will know which is more powerful.
Marketing, friends, reviews etc, it will be:
The fastest console vs most powerfull console

I would argue that fastest may actually be easiest to demonstrate, compared to 2160p vs 1800p+
It's up to MS to make the power argument work.

It's an easy argument...

If people planning to purchase PS5 told the truth and you polled them would they rather have the extra 2TF or the faster SSD, and their preference would actually get implemented, there would be zero contest the TF would win by a landslide. Zero doubt in my mind. But now everything is set in stone, So everybody goes to their corners and fights with what they have.