How to sell next-gen consoles, Marketing, Positioning, and Pricing [2020]

[PSman1700]

@chris1515
The high end pc market is usually in a different category entirely. If people want more power then a PS5 or XSX they won't need 22 or 30TF either These are absurd anyway, 3x the power of the consoles. Even at 18 to 20TF, on a whole new NV arch at 7nm, it's an immensely more powerfull package. Even Turing at 7nm would oblirate anything else atm (it already does in it's 2018 form).
Even SSD wise it's already matching or in another universum with optane drives, but they are inhumanly expensive also. Same for the CPU, a threadripper is also many times faster but it alone is over the price of a next gen console.

It's better to compare a 3060 system to the consoles, it probably is about as fast if not faster at a much better price.

 

[AzBat]

Well clearly, but it won't be moving goalposts. there are several factors that influence purchasing choice, all of different weightings but none being the one-and-only decision making factor except in some particular cases. Some people will buy the most powerful console no matter what, but they are few and far between. Some will buy the cheaper console. Some will buy based on exclusives and not care about price or performance (Nintendo enthusiasts fall very much into this category). Most folk will balance up the options, alongside existing library, friends' platform, past experience on a platform, etc.

If XBSX is cheaper than PS5 and is more powerful than PS5 and yet PS5 still outsells XBSX, then of course the library is going to be more important to consumers than price and performance, otherwise those consumers would be buying the cheaper, more powerful console. Would other explanation could there possibly be?

I will agree with all that except the moving goalposts because it will happen.

Another explanation? Brand loyalty. I know because there's no way I'd buy a Playstation & know there are those here that feel the same about Xbox.

Tommy McClain

 

[London Geezer]

I will agree with all that except the moving goalposts because it will happen.

Another explanation? Brand loyalty. I know because there's no way I'd buy a Playstation & know there are those here that feel the same about Xbox.

Tommy McClain

So you agree that power doesn’t really matter and it’s mostly about brand recognition, games and ecosystem? Great!

 

[iroboto]

So you agree that power doesn’t really matter and it’s mostly about brand recognition, games and ecosystem? Great!

lol probably. Price and Power certainly have a factor though. People are very loyal to money and by extension, value.

 

[AzBat]

So you agree that power doesn’t really matter and it’s mostly about brand recognition, games and ecosystem? Great!

Yeah, I don't think I argued otherwise. In fact, I agreed with Shifty's post that's it's a number of factors. I just thought it was funny that now the power argument has flipped from last gen to this gen & now it's a price argument. I don't expect either of the arguments(power or price) to be put to bed. I suspect XBSX to be the same price or cheaper than PS5 & I also don't expect MS to match or exceed their market share from the 360 era. I think they will do better than XBO, but 2013 really did a lot of damage. BTW, this is all based on the premise that Lockhart isn't a Mini Me version of the XBSX. I'm not convinced it's a console or even exists. I'd rather Lockhart be a new kind of device that bridges consoles & PCs/portables. Something nobody else is doing.

Tommy McClain

 

[chris1515]

@chris1515
The high end pc market is usually in a different category entirely. If people want more power then a PS5 or XSX they won't need 22 or 30TF either These are absurd anyway, 3x the power of the consoles. Even at 18 to 20TF, on a whole new NV arch at 7nm, it's an immensely more powerfull package. Even Turing at 7nm would oblirate anything else atm (it already does in it's 2018 form).
Even SSD wise it's already matching or in another universum with optane drives, but they are inhumanly expensive also. Same for the CPU, a threadripper is also many times faster but it alone is over the price of a next gen console.

It's better to compare a 3060 system to the consoles, it probably is about as fast if not faster at a much better price.

Or the 3070, it is powerful too more than a non overclocked 2080Ti.

I just say if power is so important, the best solution is a PC not a console.

I have a PS4 Pro I bought in 2017, I could have buy a Xbox One X but I prefer the game on Playstation. Having the most powerful console of a generation is not very common for Sony and they sold three times more than 100 millions consoles. There is much more important thing that power for consoles.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

You mean release at lower price than PS5. Can't put the price argument to bed if they are the same price.

Ha! For what it's worth I agree. I think the mass-market, 75-80% of the console buying public base their decision on a bunch of factors: price, friends, availability, games, features and performance.

I generally counter the performance-first argument with the lack of evidence to support this; there have been tremendously powerful consoles released over the seven console generations and they typically sell less - presumably because many console buyers are price conscious. Even within the same ecosystem, PS4 Pro is 1 in every 4 or 5 PS4 consoles sold and there is nothing to suggest Xbox One X sells more than One S/SAD.

Likewise Switch sales overtaking Xbox One sales. Wii outselling 360 and PS3. PS2 outselling Xbox. None of these count of course, oh one console is portable. Oh those two comparisons don't count because the consoles sold at different times. Let's ignore Sony's PlayStation sold crazy when sold on a different timeframe to it's competitors, as did PS2. Different timeframe, and less powerful.

The rules here are complex.

Another explanation? Brand loyalty. I know because there's no way I'd buy a Playstation & know there are those here that feel the same about Xbox.

I've never understood brand loyalty. It's an absolutely alien concept to me. Whenever we're buying anything we look at all the options. The only times where I think me and my girlfriend typically start with a narrow field is things like computers and smartphones because we're already heavily software invested in our current ecosystems and switching platforms means finding replacement software and paying for it. Otherwise, Same make of cooker? Nope, Washing machine? Nope. Fridge? Nope, Microwave. Nope? Furniture? Nope. Clothes? Nope. Car? Nope.

edit: typos/grammar.

 

[Xbat]

I've never understood brand loyalty. It's an absolutely alien concept to me.

Yeah, I don't get it either. Why deprive yourself of very good games because of brand loyalty. For me it's all about the games.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Otherwise, Same make of cooker? Nope, Washing machine? Nope. Fridge? Nope, Microwave. Nope? Furniture? Nope. Clothes? Nope. Car? Nope.

I think that's the same for everyone. People may have preferred brands, but I don't know anyone who'll only buy a "Brand X" white goods or TV or car because of brand loyalty. Nor consumables like shampoo. There are some examples like Coke vs. Pepsi where people will buy the preferred brand exclusively, but not many come to mind. I think consoles are pretty unique in being years-long investments with significant differences between the products to make them not interchangeable (at least up until last gen). Brand X fridge works the same as Brand Y fridge. Same with a power drill. TVs are pretty much the same and you just want features. But a console gives you a different experience from controller feel to interface to library. If you can only afford one console, you want to pick 'the right one' and what you already know is the best starting point for a buying decision.

 

[PSman1700]

Or the 3070, it is powerful too more than a non overclocked 2080Ti.

I just say if power is so important, the best solution is a PC not a console.

I have a PS4 Pro I bought in 2017, I could have buy a Xbox One X but I prefer the game on Playstation. Having the most powerful console of a generation is not very common for Sony and they sold three times more than 100 millions consoles. There is much more important thing that power for consoles.

Maybe, a 3060/3070 will probably outclass both, i think even a 3060 will. Turing is still not on 7nm, if it would be, performance targets would be even higher.
Not everyone wants a pc, even if they want the most powerfull console, they probably buy the most powerfull console, a pc is going to be more expensive and more of a hassle. The pc still doesn't match a console in terms of price/perf ratio, size and ease of use.
But offcourse, power is not the defining factor, it's one of the many factors that might influence one's decision. Games should be the most important, hence MS is improving upon this.

Brand loyality is a thing too btw, for some atleast. I know people who only want Apple (iphone, ipad), even when their not invested into Apples ecosystem.

 

[chris1515]

Maybe, a 3060/3070 will probably outclass both, i think even a 3060 will. Turing is still not on 7nm, if it would be, performance targets would be even higher.
Not everyone wants a pc, even if they want the most powerfull console, they probably buy the most powerfull console, a pc is going to be more expensive and more of a hassle. The pc still doesn't match a console in terms of price/perf ratio, size and ease of use.
But offcourse, power is not the defining factor, it's one of the many factors that might influence one's decision. Games should be the most important, hence MS is improving upon this.

Brand loyality is a thing too btw, for some atleast. I know people who only want Apple (iphone, ipad), even when their not invested into Apples ecosystem.

Game or franchise loyalty is a thing too some people want to play the next Halo, some the next God of war or some want to play the next Naughty Dog or the next Playground games.

 

[PSman1700]

Game or franchise loyalty is a thing too some people want to play the next Halo, some the next God of war or some want to play the next Naughty Dog or the next Playground games.

Yes then your pretty much bound to a certain platform

 

[RobertR1]

Power is ok but games or price are much more important and if performance is very important nothing can beat the PC. If last Ampere rumor are true the 3080Ti(28,55 Tflops) is a fucking monster and it will much more powerful than console. It will amped down the console by a lot more than I was thinking, I was thinking 3080 Ti would be 21/22 Tflops max...

People buying ampere flagship aren't looking at or caring about console specs much.

You don't need Ampere to stomp on the current gen of consoles. A 2080ti will do it comfortably.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I think that's the same for everyone. People may have preferred brands, but I don't know anyone who'll only buy a "Brand X" white goods or TV or car because of brand loyalty.

My experience of a brand is generally a tie-breaker breaker. I.e. you've got two-or-more options, you have positive experience of one so you go with it, or conversely you have poor experience of one and you reject that it.

This was me with Samsung TVs in about 2008/09. I had an early Samsung HDTV (a LE40R74BD circa 2006 if anybody cares) and it was just a dud model with widespread reports of the caps popping meaning it took longer and longer to start up until eventually it didn't and repairs were expensive. That put me off immediately buying another Samsung TVs, I'm now on my third Sony but I've been open to Samsung (and LG) TVs the last couple of buying decisions and have just bought a Samsung microwave.

Brand loyalty/experience as a swing factor, I get. I don't get the absolute rejection of product based on brand unless you have had really, really poor experience with it.

But a console gives you a different experience from controller feel to interface to library. If you can only afford one console, you want to pick 'the right one' and what you already know is the best starting point for a buying decision.

Yup. I look at the options for my consoles. It's all about the first/second party games. I loved early Halo and Gears but there wasn't a vast range of other things that massively appealed to me although Mass Effect 1 and 2 on 360 mightily tempted me. Plenty of Sony stuff doesn't interest me either, I quit Gran Turismo by PS3, I was never a fan of anything Quantic Dreams did until Detroit. I wasn't a fan of God of War on PS2 either. MLB The Show? Demon Souls? Death Stranding? All passes from me.

But then there is Uncharted, Ratchet & Clank (PS2-PS4), God of War (PS4), Infamous (PS3+PS3), Spider-Man, Motorstorm, Until Dawn, Shadow of the Colossus, Concrete Genie, Ni No Kuni, Journey, Yakuza, The Last of Us, Tearaway, Little Big Planet, Detroit, Persona, The Last Guardian, Resistance and all the others I've forgotten.

Sorry, not meat to be list wars. Even with a bunch of Sony titles not appealing, there are boundless numbers that do. If these games were on Xbox (and not PlayStation) my choice would be clear nextgen.

 

[Barrabas]

Regarding brand loyalty I think it's not much MS and Sony can do for marketing new consoles based on that. Brand loyalty takes time and will eventually build up and continue if one brand keeps delivering what you want both in a generation and over to the next. To try to convince new people or make people change it is important to play with our senses. What you see (games, console and controller design), what you can hear (game audio, fan noise) and what you feel both physical and in your mind (rumble, force feedback, haptic feedback, price, build quality, most powerful, fastest, most unique). Some are more difficult to perform before release obviously and some have a less impact, but if you start to spread the words, eventually people will talk and spread the message. You can see that they are very careful with the wording and the backfire can be quite damaging. Playing with our senses and using "big words" is most effective for the grand public not numbers which very few can relate to.

 

[AzBat]

But a console gives you a different experience from controller feel to interface to library. If you can only afford one console, you want to pick 'the right one' and what you already know is the best starting point for a buying decision.

+1 this. This is my experience. I bought my first console in fall of 2002 with the original Xbox based on price($199) & the games were closer to what I was accustomed to coming from the PC. Didn't hurt that I though at the time Halo just blew me away. I've come accustomed to the controller & the Halo franchise ever since & because I can only afford one console I go with Xbox. For better or for worse I'm stuck in that ecosystem. Would I change it if I was more wealthy? Not now after so many years. Had it been back in the 360 days, maybe. I'm glad some of you can afford to buy multiple platforms or have no problem leaving libraries behind, but I can't do it & I won't. Love me or hate me, that's just me.

Tommy McClain

 

[goonergaz]

I don’t know what it is but Sony just seem to hit my gaming itch, I do try Xbox games but they never really hit the spot for some reason..,as @DSoup said - if Sony games were on Xbox that’d be my choice. Likewise if Sony did go the route of MS I’d just get a PC

 

[iroboto]

Yeah, I don't get it either. Why deprive yourself of very good games because of brand loyalty. For me it's all about the games.

Self fulfilling prophecy I think. They are loyal to a brand because they liked the games on that brand. So they aren't depriving themselves of good games, when games they want to play are part of the brand.

 

[Xbat]

Self fulfilling prophecy I think. They are loyal to a brand because they liked the games on that brand. So they aren't depriving themselves of good games, when games they want to play are part of the brand.

So out of Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft only one of them make good games?
I can kind of understand getting only one because you like the type of game there first party makes but saying you would never buy a Sony console though is what's alien to me though. What if Sony or Nintendo for that matter make an amazing game in the genre you enjoy?

 

[iroboto]

So out of Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft only one of them make good games?
I can kind of understand getting only one because you like the type of game there first party makes but saying you would never buy a Sony console though is what's alien to me though. What if Sony or Nintendo for that matter make an amazing game in the genre you enjoy?

Thing is, people don't know what they haven't played. They can have an idea of what they might like, that's what advertising is supposed to do to get people to try it. But if they found a game they loved on a console, some people don't need to move on. They just want to keep playing the same games.

Or some people have tried other games in the past, didn't like it, etc, they know what games they like so they stick with the system that provided that to them.

Everyone's different, can't judge them for going after what they like. It's not to say there aren't good games on other systems, clearly there are; but you only have so much time and resources to play all these games, some people may want to taste them all, others may only want to play just 1 game, or a handful of games etc.