How environmental friendly are you?

[WhiningKhan]

I don't see why. They last quite a while, meaning they save money in the long run. So it makes good sense to heavily subsidize them.

What does 'why' refer to? Like I said, the heat pumps are great for replacing old heating systems. For new houses, it's not really that clear.

Around here (Finland), common estimate for the time to pay off the investment to ground heat pump in a new average-sized house (insulated by minimum of current regulations) is around 25 years. The compressor's expected lifetime is usually cited to be 15-20 years. In houses with better insulation specs, the payoff time can get so long it wouldn't really ever pay off. Would you want to encourage people putting less insulation in new houses?

 

[KimB]

What does 'why' refer to? Like I said, the heat pumps are great for replacing old heating systems. For new houses, it's not really that clear.

Around here (Finland), common estimate for the time to pay off the investment to ground heat pump in a new average-sized house (insulated by minimum of current regulations) is around 25 years. The compressor's expected lifetime is usually cited to be 15-20 years. In houses with better insulation specs, the payoff time can get so long it wouldn't really ever pay off. Would you want to encourage people putting less insulation in new houses?

Considering that most of the cost is not the compressor, but instead the underground part which is expected to last closer to 50, this doesn't seem like a reasonable argument.

Oh, and also the cost alone isn't quite as important as the reduction in fossil fuel use.

 

[WhiningKhan]

Considering that most of the cost is not the compressor, but instead the underground part which is expected to last closer to 50, this doesn't seem like a reasonable argument.

Oh, and also the cost alone isn't quite as important as the reduction in fossil fuel use.

Come _on_. I'm not saying ground heat pumps suck, I'm telling you why they are not too popular outside Sweden. Of course there are individuals who are willing to put significant amounts of money into the heating system in order to be environmentally friendly, but they are definitely not the majority. If you don't think it's a reasonable argument that the payoff time for the investment is much longer than the typical time people live in the house, you are free to think that way.

 

[KimB]

Come _on_. I'm not saying ground heat pumps suck, I'm telling you why they are not too popular outside Sweden. Of course there are individuals who are willing to put significant amounts of money into the heating system in order to be environmentally friendly, but they are definitely not the majority. If you don't think it's a reasonable argument that the payoff time for the investment is much longer than the typical time people live in the house, you are free to think that way.

Which is why subsidizing them makes so much sense. Society as a whole benefits from the investment.

 

[WhiningKhan]

Which is why subsidizing them makes so much sense. Society as a whole benefits from the investment.

Of course it does, and I would be happy if ground heat pumps were cheaper to install. It still does not change the facts that a) due to fixed costs, ground heat pump does not seem worth the money without subsidies and b) such subsidies do not exist in many places. Hence, as I wrote, "It makes no sense economically to use ground heat pumps unless heating power requirements are quite high", and an individual building the house can do nothing about it directly.

 

[KimB]

Of course it does, and I would be happy if ground heat pumps were cheaper to install. It still does not change the facts that a) due to fixed costs, ground heat pump does not seem worth the money without subsidies and b) such subsidies do not exist in many places. Hence, as I wrote, "It makes no sense economically to use ground heat pumps unless heating power requirements are quite high", and an individual building the house can do nothing about it directly.

And what I'm saying is that it makes sense to heavily subsidize ground heat pumps in areas that use a significant amount of heat.

 

[WhiningKhan]

And what I'm saying is that it makes sense to heavily subsidize ground heat pumps in areas that use a significant amount of heat.

And there has been no disagreement over that. There's no need to preach to the choir...

 

[menmau]

Nowadays I use a clay cup, as I found them more environmental friendly.
Not to mention that clay keeps water fresher.

 

[fearsomepirate]

A ceramic cup, hand wash, because I like the way it looks and don't have a dish washer. And paper cups are expensive.

 

[Scott_Arm]

What if the ceramic cups are basically kept forever, some 20 years or more?

 

[Blazkowicz]

I drink right at the water tap.

 

[Grall]

I don't drink water... I drink tea.

 

[Tahir2]

I drink from a ceramic or clay or even glass cup/beaker etc and then promptly smash it on the floor and throw it in the bin.

(You have no idea how long I have been wanting to say that!)

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

I drink from a ceramic or clay or even glass cup/beaker etc and then promptly smash it on the floor and throw it in the bin.

Surely you yell "Huzzahh!" and throw it in the large fireplace?

 

[Tahir2]