How do next-gen consoles stack up against PCs for VFM? *spawn

[bkilian]

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/06/14/build-a-next-gen-pc/

I love how they start off claiming they can easily match the XB One price, but end up a hundred pounds over. And they never even mention a gamepad controller or a kinect, so that's another hundred pounds or more. How about making it almost silent? Ok, now you're talking another 50 to 100 pounds in a high end case and cooling system.

It's not so easy matching a console price point by building your own gaming PC.

 

[hesido]

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/06/14/build-a-next-gen-pc/

I love how they start off claiming they can easily match the XB One price, but end up a hundred pounds over. And they never even mention a gamepad controller or a kinect, so that's another hundred pounds or more. How about making it almost silent? Ok, now you're talking another 50 to 100 pounds in a high end case and cooling system.

It's not so easy matching a console price point by building your own gaming PC.

Oh, and any potential OS costs are avoided simply by:
" If you’re reading RPS, you have a PC already, and thus surely have a Windows key already. "

Also they went with a cheap PSU. I was burnt twice by cheap ones.

 

[Dave Glue]

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/06/14/build-a-next-gen-pc/

I love how they start off claiming they can easily match the XB One price, but end up a hundred pounds over. And they never even mention a gamepad controller or a kinect, so that's another hundred pounds or more. How about making it almost silent? Ok, now you're talking another 50 to 100 pounds in a high end case and cooling system.

You certainly don't need a "high end case and cooling system" to make a PC almost silent. Maybe replace the stock HS, but I don't know where you're getting 50-100 pounds extra from. Pick the right manufacturer and most modern GPU's are quiet with their double-slot coolers these days.

It's not so easy matching a console price point by building your own gaming PC.

Bear in mind this next gen won't be available until later this year as well, the fact 6+ months from release a comparable PC is even in the same stratosphere in price is quite a change from past gens. Come Mid 2014?

Regardless the barrier to PC gaming hasn't really been price for a while now, it's ease of use and the fact that the vast majority of the public has been moving to mobile solutions. That and of course console exclusives, I'm a PC gamer but I'll likely have a PS4 for those alone.

 

[dragonelite]

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/06/14/build-a-next-gen-pc/

I love how they start off claiming they can easily match the XB One price, but end up a hundred pounds over. And they never even mention a gamepad controller or a kinect, so that's another hundred pounds or more. How about making it almost silent? Ok, now you're talking another 50 to 100 pounds in a high end case and cooling system.

It's not so easy matching a console price point by building your own gaming PC.

Isn't the bandwidth on xbone much higher then ddr3 1600?
HDD space 128GB is not enough to game on unless your juggling and reinstalling or downloading a game again. And knowing the standard cooling components it would probably sound like me 360 right now and my ps3 like a jet fighter.

probably went off topic.

 

[pjbliverpool]

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/06/14/build-a-next-gen-pc/

I love how they start off claiming they can easily match the XB One price, but end up a hundred pounds over. And they never even mention a gamepad controller or a kinect, so that's another hundred pounds or more. How about making it almost silent? Ok, now you're talking another 50 to 100 pounds in a high end case and cooling system.

It's not so easy matching a console price point by building your own gaming PC.

Yeah to be fair that was a pretty skewed article. You're not going to match the power of either console for the same price by paying for retail PC components. That said you can get something significantly more powerful for far less then you could have in 2005. I don't actually agree with his component choices either, the CPU could have been £50 cheaper if he went AMD.

 

[XpiderMX]

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/06/14/build-a-next-gen-pc/

I love how they start off claiming they can easily match the XB One price, but end up a hundred pounds over. And they never even mention a gamepad controller or a kinect, so that's another hundred pounds or more. How about making it almost silent? Ok, now you're talking another 50 to 100 pounds in a high end case and cooling system.

It's not so easy matching a console price point by building your own gaming PC.

Where is the bluray drive?

 

[pjbliverpool]

Isn't the bandwidth on xbone much higher then ddr3 1600?

That doesn't matter, the DDR3 is serving the CPU so it's bandiwdth is more than sufficient for that purpose. The high bandwidth in that system will come from the GDDR5 on the GPU.

HDD space 128GB is not enough to game on unless your juggling and reinstalling or downloading a game again.

Yes I completely agree with this. Forget the SDD, it was a terrible choice if you're being cost conscious. A regular HDD is a much better choice.

And knowing the standard cooling components it would probably sound like me 360 right now and my ps3 like a jet fighter.

This isn't true, I have only standard cooling in my PC and it's VASTLY quieter than my original xbox 360. Sometimes I genuinly can't tell if it's on in a quiet room while standing right next to it.

 

[liolio]

Oops that was OT

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/06/14/build-a-next-gen-pc/

I love how they start off claiming they can easily match the XB One price, but end up a hundred pounds over. And they never even mention a gamepad controller or a kinect, so that's another hundred pounds or more. How about making it almost silent? Ok, now you're talking another 50 to 100 pounds in a high end case and cooling system.

It's not so easy matching a console price point by building your own gaming PC.

They are doing a terrible job at it imo. Though it is not easy without custom parts, it is set to be wasteful as far as silicon if not power is concerned, form factor ain't easy either (though Nvidia provide pretty neat GPU on a short PCB).
Though it is definitely doable to end in the next gen "performances ballpark", AMD has Trinity based X4 (with the IGP disabled) that sells ~80$ at newegg. The HD 7850 is ~160$.
Such a set up with a sane amount of RAM would provide more or less next gen type of experience (it has been for a while). Actually replacing the HD7850 by either an hd7770 or hd 7790 would quiet possibly offer an experience "next geny" but I think that the 40 extra bucks asked for the HD7850 are definitely worth it.

Thing is that it is not perfect, though next gen has yet to start, the situation was quite different a quarter away from the release of the 360. To make a good PS4 set-up you would need an good APU and GDDR5. Kaveri won't get there with only its 8 CUs and its 128 bit bus (even if gddr5 was available as DIMM), though AMD next APU @22nm could get dangerously close (and quite possibly sold for cheap) if AMD find a workable workaround bandwidth constrains.
A plain doubling in density form Kaveri to "what comes next from AMD" would get us 8 cores, 16 CUs, 16 ROPs. It is just for the ref, density could not get as good, AMD may shoot at a lower die size, etc. Though they may also chose that there is no need to go pass 2/3 modules 4/6 cores, freeing more silicon for the GPU.
AMD could go for wider bus, or allow (sell) the use of GDDR5 DIMM, but looking at Intel Crystal Web (Intel claimed they 95% hit rate with 32MB and could have gone with that), looking at Durango I wonder if AMD could include a beefy eSRAM cache in its next APUs.

Anyway long story made short matching next gen consoles should be pretty easy and doable pretty early in those system life spam all that at a "reasonable" price, then it is a consoles vs PC debates and both have their pro/con.

 

[bkilian]

Oops that was OT

Spoiler

They are doing a terrible job at it imo. Though it is not easy without custom parts, it is set to be wasteful as far as silicon if not power is concerned, form factor ain't easy either (though Nvidia provide pretty neat GPU on a short PCB).
Though it is definitely doable to end in the next gen "performances ballpark", AMD has Trinity based X4 (with the IGP disabled) that sells ~80$ at newegg. The HD 7850 is ~160$.
Such a set up with a sane amount of RAM would provide more or less next gen type of experience (it has been for a while). Actually replacing the HD7850 by either an hd7770 or hd 7790 would quiet possibly offer an experience "next geny" but I think that the 40 extra bucks asked for the HD7850 are definitely worth it.

Thing is that it is not perfect, though next gen has yet to start, the situation was quite different a quarter away from the release of the 360. To make a good PS4 set-up you would need an good APU and GDDR5. Kaveri won't get there with only its 8 CUs and its 128 bit bus (even if gddr5 was available as DIMM), though AMD next APU @22nm could get dangerously close (and quite possibly sold for cheap) if AMD find a workable workaround bandwidth constrains.
A plain doubling in density form Kaveri to "what comes next from AMD" would get us 8 cores, 16 CUs, 16 ROPs. It is just for the ref, density could not get as good, AMD may shoot at a lower die size, etc. Though they may also chose that there is no need to go pass 2/3 modules 4/6 cores, freeing more silicon for the GPU.
AMD could go for wider bus, or allow (sell) the use of GDDR5 DIMM, but looking at Intel Crystal Web (Intel claimed they 95% hit rate with 32MB and could have gone with that), looking at Durango I wonder if AMD could include a beefy eSRAM cache in its next APUs.

Anyway long story made short matching next gen consoles should be pretty easy and doable pretty early in those system life spam all that at a "reasonable" price, then it is a consoles vs PC debates and both have their pro/con.

EDIT
I react to your post without thinking much of the topic... We are OT
I put spoiler banners Mods may decide to punish me (I hope not, sorry guys I intended no harm) or may be it is worse a spin-off (though I'm not sure as we will see how things evolve in the PC realm soon enough.

How is it OT? Discussing the kinds of PC components that would be equivalent to the One, and their pricing, and the technical comparison to the One seems on topic to a technical hardware investigation thread.

I'll stop now, but I figured this was the best thread to put it on, since none of the other seemed to fit.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I see the PC VFM argument as another argument as it's not shedding light on what's in XB1. I think the consoles are standing up pretty well once again.

 

[Rangers]

for $500

Athlon X4 750k-$85 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113328 (I wasn't really aware of this CPU, but it seems quite nice for the price and is quad core) (heck even better:
"A small observation: 750K X4 is 3.4Ghz/4Ghz stock/turbo 2M part with unlocked multiplier. It OCs to ~4.5-4.6Ghz on air cooling and keeping it at stock is a shame ." )

cheapo motherb-$50 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130661

8gb ram-$60 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820313080

Decent PSU-$20 after rebate http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171046

Cheap case-$20 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811192289

hard drive-$60 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136769

Windows 8 OEM license (or Win 7 if you prefer, same price) $100 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832416550

That leaves you $105 for your GPU

HD 7770 1GB, $95 after rebate http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131477 Which also comes with Far Cry 3 and Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon to boot. Which technically you could probably throw on ebay for a few bucks too.

You have $10 left over for shipping (although you are counting on two rebates)

I must say, I consider the above build a masterpiece. $500 and including windows. The PSU is even very good quality 460 watts cooler master. Fear my newegg-fu.

It's very similar in specs to the consoles, of course. 8GB RAM and a 1.2 TF GPU.

It does show you are getting a pretty good deal with the consoles. This is specced similar to XB1 but doesn't include Kinect, and is $100 more and with less powerful GPU than a PS4.

Edit: Just realized forgot to include a DVD drive. Like floppy drives of old not sure how much longer it's needed, but you can get one for $15. That would put you $5 over budget, plus a few bucks for shipping, or you might be able to squeeze a few bucks out elsewhere, sell those games on ebay or something, if you want to be really strict on $500.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Bare in mind there's a massive disparity between US and EU PC component prices going by previous threads on this subject. What's possible in the US may not be possible elsewhere.

 

[pjbliverpool]

I wouldn't try to match the price of the consoles but for a 50% premium over the X1 you can pick up a more than 50% more powerful PC while 2 years of normal game purchases + live subscriptions will likely make up the difference:

CPU- AMD FX6300 - £93
Mobo - MSI 760GM-P34 (mATX) - £36
RAM - 16GB DDR3 1600Mhz - £99
GPU - Radeon 7950 3GB - £222
HDD - 1TB - £48
OPT - Blu-Ray - £27
OS -Win8 64bit OEM - £70
Case - mATX = 500w ps - £24
Wireless 360 Pad - £26
Wireless Key/Mouse - £20


TOTAL = £665

 

[metacore]

I cannot wait to see how late 2014(and later) muliplatform games will stack up on proposed configs. I bet due to api, lazy programing, and necessity to market new hardware, paper powah will "somehow" quickly evaporate from these kind of configs. Just like id did with comparable cards from 2005.

It may be even worse comparable cards from 2005 had same amout of ram as consoles, 77907850 have 1/4 of memory. On top of that unified setup spiced up with those garlics and onions which will undoubtedly be taken advantage of.

I see march 2015 rps headline " well another 200 for new gpu and you are set" , but but benchmarks show i need 8 native hardware cores ... ok then another 150 , oh noes i need new mobo and ddr4 sticks. Rps tell me if my experience will be superior? "well if petition for port of that title will be effective, aaaand if programmers will deliver aaaand if you don't mind waiting ".

 

[homerdog]

^I don't buy it. For the most part you can still play current console ports with >console settings and framerate at 720p on a 512MB 8800GT + Core 2 Duo.

If you're strictly comparing to 2005-early2006 GPUs then yes, because those were on the wrong end of a GPU revolution. 2006-2007 GPUs however continue to hold up well.

 

[pjbliverpool]

I cannot wait to see how late 2014(and later) muliplatform games will stack up on proposed configs. I bet due to api, lazy programing, and necessity to market new hardware, paper powah will "somehow" quickly evaporate from these kind of configs. Just like id did with comparable cards from 2005.

Late 2014... 1 year after the consoles launch? Lets see, 1 year after the PS360 launch in late 2006, GPU's that were directly comparable to Xenos and RSX were going head to head with those consoles and winning (79xx and X19xx) while GPU's significantly more powerful (8800) were wiping the floor with them.

Do you have a good reason for expecting things to be different this time around? Even given that PC's are using a lighter more efficient API now and the consoles have a more PC like architecture meaning more scope for cross platform optimisations?

It may be even worse comparable cards from 2005 had same amout of ram as consoles, 77907850 have 1/4 of memory. On top of that unified setup spiced up with those garlics and onions which will undoubtedly be taken advantage of.

Here's a news flash for you, the Xbox 360 had a unified memory setup aswell. And both last generation consoles had superior intergpu-cpu communication than PC's (at that point - and arguably still today).

And while the memory situation is indeed different to what to what it was, a 7950 has 1/2 the total memory of the new consoles (after system reservation) not 1/4.

I see march 2015 rps headline " well another 200 for new gpu and you are set" , but but benchmarks show i need 8 native hardware cores ... ok then another 150 , oh noes i need new mobo and ddr4 sticks. Rps tell me if my experience will be superior? "well if petition for port of that title will be effective, aaaand if programmers will deliver aaaand if you don't mind waiting ".

That's an awful lot of creative thinking, perhaps you should write a book. Warning though, fiction often requires some basis in fact so you may want to work on that side of things a little.

 

[pjbliverpool]

^I don't buy it. For the most part you can still play current console ports with >console settings and framerate at 720p on a 512MB 8800GT + Core 2 Duo.

If you're strictly comparing to 2005-early2006 GPUs then yes, because those were on the wrong end of a GPU revolution. 2006-2007 GPUs however continue to hold up well.

Precisely. While this time it's the consoles that are on the wrong end of a GPU revolution. Using (by the time they launch) a 2 year old design that is within a couple of months of being replaced by a new generation.

 

[homerdog]

Indeed

FWIW the PS3 found itself on the wrong end of the GPU revolution, and it showed.

 

[bkilian]

for $500

Athlon X4 750k-$85 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113328 (I wasn't really aware of this CPU, but it seems quite nice for the price and is quad core) (heck even better:
"A small observation: 750K X4 is 3.4Ghz/4Ghz stock/turbo 2M part with unlocked multiplier. It OCs to ~4.5-4.6Ghz on air cooling and keeping it at stock is a shame ." )

cheapo motherb-$50 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130661

8gb ram-$60 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820313080

Decent PSU-$20 after rebate http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171046

Cheap case-$20 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811192289

hard drive-$60 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136769

Windows 8 OEM license (or Win 7 if you prefer, same price) $100 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832416550

That leaves you $105 for your GPU

HD 7770 1GB, $95 after rebate http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131477 Which also comes with Far Cry 3 and Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon to boot. Which technically you could probably throw on ebay for a few bucks too.

You have $10 left over for shipping (although you are counting on two rebates)

I must say, I consider the above build a masterpiece. $500 and including windows. The PSU is even very good quality 460 watts cooler master. Fear my newegg-fu.

It's very similar in specs to the consoles, of course. 8GB RAM and a 1.2 TF GPU.

It does show you are getting a pretty good deal with the consoles. This is specced similar to XB1 but doesn't include Kinect, and is $100 more and with less powerful GPU than a PS4.

Edit: Just realized forgot to include a DVD drive. Like floppy drives of old not sure how much longer it's needed, but you can get one for $15. That would put you $5 over budget, plus a few bucks for shipping, or you might be able to squeeze a few bucks out elsewhere, sell those games on ebay or something, if you want to be really strict on $500.

Nicely done, and as noted, no kinect, no gamepad, and no audio hardware (beyond a DAC). The system will generate some noise too, my PC is specced lower than that, and the fan noise is quite noticeable, especially compared to my wife's mac mini.

 

[RudeCurve]

This isn't true, I have only standard cooling in my PC and it's VASTLY quieter than my original xbox 360. Sometimes I genuinly can't tell if it's on in a quiet room while standing right next to it.

This is only relevant when comparing equal box volumes and equal processing power.

My 1U case has external PS, FX4100 CPU, IGPU, stock cooling and it's slightly louder than X360S. I could make it quieter with a larger fan if I had the room.