How do next-gen consoles stack up against PCs for VFM? *spawn

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by bkilian, Jun 14, 2013.

  1. bkilian

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,539
    Likes Received:
    3
    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/06/14/build-a-next-gen-pc/

    I love how they start off claiming they can easily match the XB One price, but end up a hundred pounds over. And they never even mention a gamepad controller or a kinect, so that's another hundred pounds or more. How about making it almost silent? Ok, now you're talking another 50 to 100 pounds in a high end case and cooling system.

    It's not so easy matching a console price point by building your own gaming PC.
     
  2. hesido

    Regular

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    553
    Likes Received:
    85
    Oh, and any potential OS costs are avoided simply by:
    " If you’re reading RPS, you have a PC already, and thus surely have a Windows key already. "

    Also they went with a cheap PSU. I was burnt twice by cheap ones.
     
  3. Dave Glue

    Regular

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    634
    Likes Received:
    25
    You certainly don't need a "high end case and cooling system" to make a PC almost silent. Maybe replace the stock HS, but I don't know where you're getting 50-100 pounds extra from. Pick the right manufacturer and most modern GPU's are quiet with their double-slot coolers these days.
    Bear in mind this next gen won't be available until later this year as well, the fact 6+ months from release a comparable PC is even in the same stratosphere in price is quite a change from past gens. Come Mid 2014?

    Regardless the barrier to PC gaming hasn't really been price for a while now, it's ease of use and the fact that the vast majority of the public has been moving to mobile solutions. That and of course console exclusives, I'm a PC gamer but I'll likely have a PS4 for those alone.
     
  4. dragonelite

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,556
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    netherlands
    Isn't the bandwidth on xbone much higher then ddr3 1600?
    HDD space 128GB is not enough to game on unless your juggling and reinstalling or downloading a game again. And knowing the standard cooling components it would probably sound like me 360 right now and my ps3 like a jet fighter:lol:.

    probably went off topic.
     
  5. pjbliverpool

    pjbliverpool B3D Scallywag
    Legend

    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Messages:
    7,712
    Likes Received:
    916
    Location:
    Guess...
    Yeah to be fair that was a pretty skewed article. You're not going to match the power of either console for the same price by paying for retail PC components. That said you can get something significantly more powerful for far less then you could have in 2005. I don't actually agree with his component choices either, the CPU could have been £50 cheaper if he went AMD.
     
  6. XpiderMX

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,768
    Likes Received:
    0
    Where is the bluray drive?
     
  7. pjbliverpool

    pjbliverpool B3D Scallywag
    Legend

    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Messages:
    7,712
    Likes Received:
    916
    Location:
    Guess...
    That doesn't matter, the DDR3 is serving the CPU so it's bandiwdth is more than sufficient for that purpose. The high bandwidth in that system will come from the GDDR5 on the GPU.

    Yes I completely agree with this. Forget the SDD, it was a terrible choice if you're being cost conscious. A regular HDD is a much better choice.

    This isn't true, I have only standard cooling in my PC and it's VASTLY quieter than my original xbox 360. Sometimes I genuinly can't tell if it's on in a quiet room while standing right next to it.
     
  8. liolio

    liolio Aquoiboniste
    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2005
    Messages:
    5,724
    Likes Received:
    194
    Location:
    Stateless
    Oops that was OT
    They are doing a terrible job at it imo. Though it is not easy without custom parts, it is set to be wasteful as far as silicon if not power is concerned, form factor ain't easy either (though Nvidia provide pretty neat GPU on a short PCB).
    Though it is definitely doable to end in the next gen "performances ballpark", AMD has Trinity based X4 (with the IGP disabled) that sells ~80$ at newegg. The HD 7850 is ~160$.
    Such a set up with a sane amount of RAM would provide more or less next gen type of experience (it has been for a while). Actually replacing the HD7850 by either an hd7770 or hd 7790 would quiet possibly offer an experience "next geny" but I think that the 40 extra bucks asked for the HD7850 are definitely worth it.

    Thing is that it is not perfect, though next gen has yet to start, the situation was quite different a quarter away from the release of the 360. To make a good PS4 set-up you would need an good APU and GDDR5. Kaveri won't get there with only its 8 CUs and its 128 bit bus (even if gddr5 was available as DIMM), though AMD next APU @22nm could get dangerously close (and quite possibly sold for cheap) if AMD find a workable workaround bandwidth constrains.
    A plain doubling in density form Kaveri to "what comes next from AMD" would get us 8 cores, 16 CUs, 16 ROPs. It is just for the ref, density could not get as good, AMD may shoot at a lower die size, etc. Though they may also chose that there is no need to go pass 2/3 modules 4/6 cores, freeing more silicon for the GPU.
    AMD could go for wider bus, or allow (sell) the use of GDDR5 DIMM, but looking at Intel Crystal Web (Intel claimed they 95% hit rate with 32MB and could have gone with that), looking at Durango I wonder if AMD could include a beefy eSRAM cache in its next APUs.

    Anyway long story made short matching next gen consoles should be pretty easy and doable pretty early in those system life spam all that at a "reasonable" price, then it is a consoles vs PC debates and both have their pro/con.
     
    #8 liolio, Jun 14, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2013
  9. bkilian

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,539
    Likes Received:
    3
    How is it OT? Discussing the kinds of PC components that would be equivalent to the One, and their pricing, and the technical comparison to the One seems on topic to a technical hardware investigation thread.

    I'll stop now, but I figured this was the best thread to put it on, since none of the other seemed to fit.
     
  10. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    42,894
    Likes Received:
    14,954
    Location:
    Under my bridge
    I see the PC VFM argument as another argument as it's not shedding light on what's in XB1. I think the consoles are standing up pretty well once again.
     
  11. Rangers

    Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2006
    Messages:
    12,563
    Likes Received:
    1,387
    for $500

    Athlon X4 750k-$85 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113328 (I wasn't really aware of this CPU, but it seems quite nice for the price and is quad core) (heck even better:
    "A small observation: 750K X4 is 3.4Ghz/4Ghz stock/turbo 2M part with unlocked multiplier. It OCs to ~4.5-4.6Ghz on air cooling and keeping it at stock is a shame ." )

    cheapo motherb-$50 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130661

    8gb ram-$60 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820313080

    Decent PSU-$20 after rebate http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171046

    Cheap case-$20 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811192289

    hard drive-$60 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136769

    Windows 8 OEM license (or Win 7 if you prefer, same price) $100 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832416550

    That leaves you $105 for your GPU :razz:

    HD 7770 1GB, $95 after rebate http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131477 Which also comes with Far Cry 3 and Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon to boot. Which technically you could probably throw on ebay for a few bucks too.

    You have $10 left over for shipping (although you are counting on two rebates)

    I must say, I consider the above build a masterpiece. $500 and including windows. The PSU is even very good quality 460 watts cooler master. Fear my newegg-fu.

    It's very similar in specs to the consoles, of course. 8GB RAM and a 1.2 TF GPU.

    It does show you are getting a pretty good deal with the consoles. This is specced similar to XB1 but doesn't include Kinect, and is $100 more and with less powerful GPU than a PS4.

    Edit: Just realized forgot to include a DVD drive. Like floppy drives of old not sure how much longer it's needed, but you can get one for $15. That would put you $5 over budget, plus a few bucks for shipping, or you might be able to squeeze a few bucks out elsewhere, sell those games on ebay or something, if you want to be really strict on $500.
     
  12. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    42,894
    Likes Received:
    14,954
    Location:
    Under my bridge
    Bare in mind there's a massive disparity between US and EU PC component prices going by previous threads on this subject. What's possible in the US may not be possible elsewhere.
     
  13. pjbliverpool

    pjbliverpool B3D Scallywag
    Legend

    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Messages:
    7,712
    Likes Received:
    916
    Location:
    Guess...
    I wouldn't try to match the price of the consoles but for a 50% premium over the X1 you can pick up a more than 50% more powerful PC while 2 years of normal game purchases + live subscriptions will likely make up the difference:

    CPU- AMD FX6300 - £93
    Mobo - MSI 760GM-P34 (mATX) - £36
    RAM - 16GB DDR3 1600Mhz - £99
    GPU - Radeon 7950 3GB - £222
    HDD - 1TB - £48
    OPT - Blu-Ray - £27
    OS -Win8 64bit OEM - £70
    Case - mATX = 500w ps - £24
    Wireless 360 Pad - £26
    Wireless Key/Mouse - £20


    TOTAL = £665
     
  14. metacore

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2011
    Messages:
    111
    Likes Received:
    86
    I cannot wait to see how late 2014(and later) muliplatform games will stack up on proposed configs. I bet due to api, lazy programing, and necessity to market new hardware, paper powah will "somehow" quickly evaporate from these kind of configs. Just like id did with comparable cards from 2005.

    It may be even worse comparable cards from 2005 had same amout of ram as consoles, 77907850 have 1/4 of memory. On top of that unified setup spiced up with those garlics and onions:D which will undoubtedly be taken advantage of.

    I see march 2015 rps headline " well another 200 for new gpu and you are set" , but but benchmarks show i need 8 native hardware cores ... ok then another 150 :lol:, oh noes i need new mobo and ddr4 sticks:eek:. Rps tell me if my experience will be superior? "well if petition for port of that title will be effective, aaaand if programmers will deliver aaaand if you don't mind waiting ".:roll:
     
  15. homerdog

    homerdog donator of the year
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2008
    Messages:
    6,263
    Likes Received:
    1,032
    Location:
    still camping with a mauler
    ^I don't buy it. For the most part you can still play current console ports with >console settings and framerate at 720p on a 512MB 8800GT + Core 2 Duo.

    If you're strictly comparing to 2005-early2006 GPUs then yes, because those were on the wrong end of a GPU revolution. 2006-2007 GPUs however continue to hold up well.
     
    #15 homerdog, Jun 14, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2013
  16. pjbliverpool

    pjbliverpool B3D Scallywag
    Legend

    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Messages:
    7,712
    Likes Received:
    916
    Location:
    Guess...
    Late 2014... 1 year after the consoles launch? Lets see, 1 year after the PS360 launch in late 2006, GPU's that were directly comparable to Xenos and RSX were going head to head with those consoles and winning (79xx and X19xx) while GPU's significantly more powerful (8800) were wiping the floor with them.

    Do you have a good reason for expecting things to be different this time around? Even given that PC's are using a lighter more efficient API now and the consoles have a more PC like architecture meaning more scope for cross platform optimisations?

    Here's a news flash for you, the Xbox 360 had a unified memory setup aswell. And both last generation consoles had superior intergpu-cpu communication than PC's (at that point - and arguably still today).

    And while the memory situation is indeed different to what to what it was, a 7950 has 1/2 the total memory of the new consoles (after system reservation) not 1/4.

    That's an awful lot of creative thinking, perhaps you should write a book. Warning though, fiction often requires some basis in fact so you may want to work on that side of things a little.
     
  17. pjbliverpool

    pjbliverpool B3D Scallywag
    Legend

    Joined:
    May 8, 2005
    Messages:
    7,712
    Likes Received:
    916
    Location:
    Guess...
    Precisely. While this time it's the consoles that are on the wrong end of a GPU revolution. Using (by the time they launch) a 2 year old design that is within a couple of months of being replaced by a new generation.
     
  18. homerdog

    homerdog donator of the year
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2008
    Messages:
    6,263
    Likes Received:
    1,032
    Location:
    still camping with a mauler
    Indeed :)

    FWIW the PS3 found itself on the wrong end of the GPU revolution, and it showed.
     
  19. bkilian

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,539
    Likes Received:
    3
    Nicely done, and as noted, no kinect, no gamepad, and no audio hardware (beyond a DAC). The system will generate some noise too, my PC is specced lower than that, and the fan noise is quite noticeable, especially compared to my wife's mac mini.
     
  20. RudeCurve

    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,831
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is only relevant when comparing equal box volumes and equal processing power.

    My 1U case has external PS, FX4100 CPU, IGPU, stock cooling and it's slightly louder than X360S. I could make it quieter with a larger fan if I had the room.
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...