That doesn't mean anything. Sales from the game are dropping. The PSN requirement doesn't go into effect until June 4th anyway.
Helldivers 2 [PS5, PC]
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That doesn't mean anything. Sales from the game are dropping. The PSN requirement doesn't go into effect until June 4th anyway.
I don't get it. Are you saying those two titles requiring 3rd party launcher proves you must have some kind of 3rd party account in order to ban players in any steam game?
there is a concerted harassment campaign by asshole mark kern and others (gamergate 2.0) against the arrowhead team and especially the community team and its disgusting
Has nothing to do with making an account... cmon now.
It's that they're forcing buyers to break their own PSN TOS to make accounts in countries where it's not supported... to be able to play a game on a platform where for the last 3 months there was no such issue..
Most likely they will end up having gotten to play the game for several months free of charge. I find it incredibly unlikely they don’t either receive refunds or are able to bypass this requirement. Any outrage should be withheld until negative consequences are confirmed.
I think it's reasonable to be pissed off that a game that you could play for 3 months already, is suddenly removed from sale in your country and you no longer have access to the game because of a serious error from the parties involved.
Consumers are using the only means they have here to combat this stuff.
If the answer is simply "make an account in whatever country/region you want and play we wont ban you"... then ok.. make an account and play on. But if they try some shit which causes issues in the future regarding regions and support.. then they will have a SERIOUS storm on their hands.
They have to correct this issue and be crystal clear going forward.
You're looking at players, whereas I think remij is looking at sales.
That's the complaint now, but only after it's evolved as the situation has developed over all of two days. At first it was "I have to make an account" with a bit of "Sony are data farming and harvesting biometrics" followed by "Sony took my money and I can't get a refund" to "people in 169 different countries can't even make a PSN account" where those 169 countries represent probably 1.5% of the playerbase. The only staple criticism here is Sony cocked up the implementation and messaging and didn't understand the Steam market at all when planning to require PSN accounts.
What two titles? I've posted like half a dozen. Halo:Infinite - Does MS have a launcher? Last Epoch? Do they have a launcher?? Gearbox for Borderlands? Warframe? There are clearly a fair number of games on Steam that require 3rd party accounts and not because of launchers. Unless they all have launchers I'm unaware of??
Yes, However, it might not have been pulled had the thing not blown up in 24 hours. Maybe, just maybe, if the situation had been discussed sanely before the enforced PSN accounts, things would have been put in place so everyone could carry on playing. But it feels like everyone wanted their money back yesterday, and Valve/Sony have given what the vocal are demanding.
Absolutely. And they should be given a little more than one weekend to do that.
I'd like to have seen:
- Sony announce PSN requirement
- Public voices concern with legit feelings
- There's a conversation, and the requirement is pointed out as always there. Gamers go, "oh, okay, we missed that. But your T&Cs suck because they don't mention it"
- Sony responds, "they sure do. Let's update them," without the internet pointing fingers saying Sony are double-dealing and changing the terms behind our backs
- Valve and Sony post, "we hear you. Bear with as we sort this out."
- A week or two later, a new system is in place. Maybe Sony roll out a Rest of World region? Maybe they drop the requirement from unsupported nations? Maybe they postpone the PSN requirement as they investigate options?
ok, that's fine. But clearly 3rd party accounts are not required for either multiplayer, nor applying account-level bans or other modifications to targeted players. And this has been the case since Steam first existed.
Charlietus
Regular
Sony could have pulled the game off of steam to put it in they're own launcher, could have required ps plus to play on PC, changed the monetization strategy to make it a gacha game. All of those things would have been solid grounds for the upheaval of the last few days. I would have been there with them. But it was a login. Pretty much DEFCON 1 reactions for a minor inconvenience.Yes, However, it might not have been pulled had the thing not blown up in 24 hours. Maybe, just maybe, if the situation had been discussed sanely before the enforced PSN accounts, things would have been put in place so everyone could carry on playing. But it feels like everyone wanted their money back yesterday, and Valve/Sony have given what the vocal are demanding.
Absolutely. And they should be given a little more than one weekend to do that.
I'd like to have seen:
But calm is not something modern society can do at all. Partly because there's zero trust.
- Sony announce PSN requirement
- Public voices concern with legit feelings
- There's a conversation, and the requirement is pointed out as always there. Gamers go, "oh, okay, we missed that. But your T&Cs suck because they don't mention it"
- Sony responds, "they sure do. Let's update them," without the internet pointing fingers saying Sony are double-dealing and changing the terms behind our backs
- Valve and Sony post, "we hear you. Bear with as we sort this out."
- A week or two later, a new system is in place. Maybe Sony roll out a Rest of World region? Maybe they drop the requirement from unsupported nations? Maybe they postpone the PSN requirement as they investigate options?
They were given 3 months...Yes, However, it might not have been pulled had the thing not blown up in 24 hours. Maybe, just maybe, if the situation had been discussed sanely before the enforced PSN accounts, things would have been put in place so everyone could carry on playing. But it feels like everyone wanted their money back yesterday, and Valve/Sony have given what the vocal are demanding.
Absolutely. And they should be given a little more than one weekend to do that.
I'd like to have seen:
But calm is not something modern society can do at all. Partly because there's zero trust.
- Sony announce PSN requirement
- Public voices concern with legit feelings
- There's a conversation, and the requirement is pointed out as always there. Gamers go, "oh, okay, we missed that. But your T&Cs suck because they don't mention it"
- Sony responds, "they sure do. Let's update them," without the internet pointing fingers saying Sony are double-dealing and changing the terms behind our backs
- Valve and Sony post, "we hear you. Bear with as we sort this out."
- A week or two later, a new system is in place. Maybe Sony roll out a Rest of World region? Maybe they drop the requirement from unsupported nations? Maybe they postpone the PSN requirement as they investigate options?
If Sony pulled the game off Steam, they'd have major lawsuits on their hands.
If Sony would have had their own store, and made it mandatory from Day 1. Nobody would have said anything.
If it's just a log in, then officially respond and tell players from affected areas to create an account from a country with which they don't reside.. and ensure the players that there would be no consequence for doing so.
Except they're not doing that, because there's bigger issues at play here. Sony/Valve don't just stop selling games in countries for something as simple as making an account... They very clearly see a legal issue here and want to stop things to figure out how to proceed... but this is all something that should have happened months ago.... not now... after sales are starting to slow and CCUs are dying down..
For the purchasers the negative consequences are confirmed. They’ve enjoyed 4 months of not needing to be connected to PSN. And now they will.
I don’t really think it should be an issue, but for some people it’s enough.
From my point of view, the negative consequences have already been confirmed. Again, the group of guys I was playing this game nightly has essentially disbanded. I'll reiterate that I don't really have a problem with logging in with my PSN credentials. I'm a bit miffed that because I hit skip a month ago, I actually can't log in now, because the entire menu option is now missing from my game. But the fact that they alienated my whole crew and made the game harder for solo players has caused me to stop playing the game.
As a person who bought this game 6 weeks or so ago, I never knew the requirement was temporarily disabled. I saw the listing on the store page, but I also saw the skip button when I booted the game. I don't know how I would be expected to know it was only temporarily disabled, I just thought the requirement was erroneously listed, or that it was only required for crossplay. There was nothing that I can remember that told me it was temporary.
Charlietus
Regular
If there are legal issues, all players that are affected will get an automatic refund. They wouldn't let it get to that point.
As to why they haven't officially responded, it's absurd to me but the explanation is that it's the weekend, and for them it's just a job. They could take a whole week to respond, since they have to actually decide what to do.
Sure. All I'm saying is that if the issue was as simple as people say it is.. ie "just make an account"... then Sony or Valve wouldn't have stopped selling the game in those countries and have simply told them, "no you can make an account in those countries without violating the TOS"..
Then I would have been like... ok just make the account. But that's clearly not the case. So either they fix it so it is the case.. or they refund.
It corrects your misunderstanding that other companies can issue bans without needing 3rd party accounts. You said:
This proves how it is true, as other companies who want to ban people from their game also require 3rd party accounts.
The correct response is, "okay, I see now. It's clearly standard industry practice to have 3rd party accounts for multiplayer games. However, I'm still going ahead and getting a refund. Looks like you were right, Shifty, and refunds have been enabled in response to this just as you said it would in your first reply when you said "Thankfully Valve will have their backs and at least support refunds, and they are big enough to take Sony to task over this.". Good call!"
What about all the games that don't require third party accounts that ban steam players?
Not sure what you are trying to prove. Microsoft wants you to sign up for Microsoft account so they can track your data and get you to buy things off steam where they get a larger cut.
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