Helldivers 2 [PS5, PC]

[Remij]

They have their own accounts!


How many of these do I need to post?! Sony aren't doing anything new to Steam that other publishers haven't been doing for years. The only difference here is the requirement wasn't in place from day one, and people started Helldivers 2 without being asked to log in to their PSN account. We're told that was for technical reasons, and the game blew up in popularity so that's not completely unrealistic considering how hokey we know PSN can be.

That's just the thing.. Except those technical reasons would only logically apply to regions where PSN exists and is supported. The issue with this game isn't just that they're making it mandatory after the fact... they're making it mandatory for countries which don't have PSN support officially. Making accounts in regions outside of where you are is against their TOS, and apparently in some regions you can't make an account at all unless you do so from the console itself. So if you don't have a $500 PS console.. you can't make an account.

Sony should have bit the bullet and left this particular game alone with that requirement and instead have just incentivized as many PC players as possible to create/link their PSN accounts through DLCs or something. "Hey link your PSN account and get a free x or y" and make it actually appealing to do so. Then focus on making it a requirement with future games.

They went about this all wrong.

 

[see colon]

They literally stated it on the game page. If they had no intention of doing this, why did they say a PSN was needed on the game page??

To play devil's advocate, it isn't listed on the game page on Playstation's website. In fact, it doesn't even tell you that you need internet to play it in the system requirements. The PS5 page mentions it in the FAQ, but only regarding the PS5 version.

Do I need PlayStation Plus to play Helldivers 2?
Yeah, internet access and a paid for PlayStation Plus membership are required for PS5.

and also on the PS5 page but not on the PC page

Online features require an account and are subject to terms of service and applicable privacy policy (playstationnetwork.com/terms-of-service & playstationnetwork.com/privacy-policy).

These are not mentioned on the PC page, though the buy button just links to Steam, where 3rd party account is listed.

Also, the FAQ for PC games used to say, until about a day ago, that you don't need a PSN account for any Playstation Studios games on PC, but has been amended to say

Some PlayStation Studios games on PC require an account for PlayStation Network to access certain modes or features.

This was changed after the new announcement that they were going to enforce the PSN account requirement, but 3 months after the game launched with that requirement.

Again, I don't personally think there is a problem in the requirement, I think it's 100% in the messaging. It's been confusing, and contradictory at best, and sometimes downright insulting. "This won't work without PSN, even though it has worked for 3 months". "This has always been a requirement we just didn't require you to do it". "This is for safety/banning/etc, but we are going to allow some people from some countries without PSN to still play". "All you have to do is link your PSN account but if you hit skip the option to link a PSN account isn't available to you in the menu anywhere". "There aren't any nerfs in the new patch but all the weapons have less ammo and some take longer to reload".

 

[iroboto]

I agree.

No, this is the warning. It's not being enforced universally until later. No-one fired up Helldivers 2 to be told they can't play it now without an account. This is the warning to get ready for when that happens (although fairly short notice).

They literally stated it on the game page. If they had no intention of doing this, why did they say a PSN was needed on the game page??

Not these days. You need to check the comment sections. Have you seen my screenshots? Now the only issue here is if Sony added that warning after the fact, but user reports are that it was there from day one. So either they're lying or a lot of people missed it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yea. That’s true. This is the warning. I do believe this will largely blow over. I suspect they are willing to take a 10% player loss to keep this. Anything greater would likely be bad for them. But I don’t see that happening, and gamers have bad memories.

As for whether it was listed as a must sign in requirement. I don’t know. Gamers are saying it’s not true.
Here is their proof

Buy HELLDIVERS™ 2 - PC Digital Game | PlayStation® (US)

Join the Helldivers and fight for freedom with friends across a hostile galaxy in this fast, frantic third-person shooter.

direct.playstation.com

How to sign in to PSN when playing a PlayStation game on PC

Find out how to link your account for PlayStation™Network (PSN) to your PlayStation games on PC.

web.archive.org

Then some guys are like. Look you signed their EULA on steam, you lose.
But I don’t think they looked at the EULA on steam, so I did, and there was no mention of the PSN required to play

OFF-PLATFORM Software Product License Agreement (ver. 2.0)

web.archive.org

But for Halo MCC whihc does require it. It’s in the Requirements section of their EULA.

Halo: The Master Chief Collection EULA

store.steampowered.com

Sonys EULA, as I read it, allows them to make changes without being sued. Which is fine. But there’s no real indication there of requirement for PSN account to play the game.

 

[see colon]

@iroboto You found the page I was looking for! This one right here still has the old FAQ:

Buy HELLDIVERS™ 2 - PC Digital Game | PlayStation® (US)

Join the Helldivers and fight for freedom with friends across a hostile galaxy in this fast, frantic third-person shooter.

direct.playstation.com

Do I need a PSN account to play PlayStation games on PC?
No, you currently do not need a PSN account to enjoy PlayStation Studios games on PC, but you will need a Steam account to redeem your voucher code. Some of our PlayStation Studios titles also offer incentives for linking your PSN and Steam accounts.

This page allows you to buy a Steam key direct from Playstation, and then redeem that key on Steam. There isn't a requirement for PSN listed on the page, and it explicitly says you don't need one. Again, unless I missed it, there isn't even a mention that this is an online only game, though it does say that you need an internet connection to activate it on Steam.

The messaging is so messy, and that's the problem. Things are said one place and the opposite stated elsewhere, all from official sources.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Also, the FAQ for PC games used to say, until about a day ago, that you don't need a PSN account for any Playstation Studios games on PC, but has been amended to say

I think that's an oversight. Prior to this, no other PS game on PC did. No-one thought to update the FAQ when Helldivers 2 rolled out and now it's come to Sony's attention.

But there’s no real indication there of requirement for PSN account to play the game.

Maybe not in the T&Cs or FAQ, but it is there in the official place on the Steam page, the same place used by external account for other publishers. Commenters on EG say they were presented with this requirement on install but I don't know if that's true or not. Just tried searching for a first gameplay video but the log in is edited out.

There's also a distinction on Steam for 3rd party accounts and EULAs. Sony has an EULA for every game on Steam, but only HD2 has the PSN account requirement listed. So chances are the EULA is generic for single player games and wasn't updated for their first PSN-intended multiplayer, like their PC game requirement FAQs

 

[Shifty Geezer]

@iroboto You found the page I was looking for! This one right here still has the old FAQ:

Buy HELLDIVERS™ 2 - PC Digital Game | PlayStation® (US)

Join the Helldivers and fight for freedom with friends across a hostile galaxy in this fast, frantic third-person shooter.

direct.playstation.com

This page allows you to buy a Steam key direct from Playstation, and then redeem that key on Steam.

If you bought from there, you have full complaint rights!

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Helldivers 2 has been pulled from sale in 177 countries as its PSN linking requirement rolls out

Helldivers 2 has been pulled from sale in 177 countries as its PSN linking requirement rolls out in countries where PSN…

www.eurogamer.net

Helldivers 2 has been pulled from sale in 177 countries as its PSN linking requirement rolls out in countries where PSN is not available.

Rest of article is basically regurgitating old news.

 

[iroboto]

There's also a distinction on Steam for 3rd party accounts and EULAs. Sony has an EULA for every game on Steam, but only HD2 has the PSN account requirement listed. So chances are the EULA is generic for single player games and wasn't updated for their first PSN-intended multiplayer, like their PC game requirement FAQs

That’s a big opps by Sony. I think if they always wanted this to be a PSN required game, the Eula would have said so. It’s not something you would miss. Come June 4th, I expect to see the EULA updated. Too many people have agreed to the terms and none of the terms ever suggested or required PSN accounts.

Sony is within their right to do this. But I think players are right in saying that it was optional they agreed to a EULA that didn’t say PSN was required and they were allowed to skip the PSN account linking.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

That’s a big opps by Sony. I think if they always wanted this to be a PSN required game,

Why isn't this badge:



...and the claim there was a message at the beginning of the game proof enough that this was their original intention? Why does the game feature that callout if it was never an intention to require PSN? Surely if this is new, that callout would have just been added the moment Sony changed their minds?

the Eula would have said so. It’s not something you would miss.

You guys have a lot more faith in the infallibility of corporations than me! I see screw-ups all the time and this matches that theory far more readily than it does the other more conspiratorial ones. Whatever department was responsible for the EULA wasn't clued in to the PSN requirement. Management discussed it amongst themselves but never got around to forwarding the memo. Is that really such a far-fetched notion that it's more plausible Sony added a PSN callout without intending to require PSN and then changed their minds?

Come June 4th, I expect to see the EULA updated.

So do I, but not because Sony have changed their minds but because they realised the old EULA was no longer valid for the latest game and subsequent plans.

Sony is within their right to do this.

On that I disagree. If Sony sold the game not requiring a PSN account, never intending that requirement, and then changed their minds and now do, they should be brought to task and raked over the coals. Which was my original sentiment when the story broke before I learned that the above callout was visible to every single buyer on Steam when they bought the game. I'd also like more clarity on the messaging in game - were users informed PSN would be a requirement and how visible was that?

 

[Malo]

How many of these do I need to post?! Sony aren't doing anything new to Steam that other publishers haven't been doing for years. The only difference here is the requirement wasn't in place from day one, and people started Helldivers 2 without being asked to log in to their PSN account. We're told that was for technical reasons, and the game blew up in popularity so that's not completely unrealistic considering how hokey we know PSN can be.

I know the point is that the warning was there from the start, but note that for those two examples and many others like it, external accounts are needed because those games run off dedicated launchers that are required. Helldivers does not require any kind of PSN launcher.

 

[see colon]

If Sony sold the game not requiring a PSN account, never intending that requirement, and then changed their minds and now do, they should be brought to task and raked over the coals. Which was my original sentiment when the story broke before I learned that the above callout was visible to every single buyer on Steam when they bought the game. I'd also like more clarity on the messaging in game - were users informed PSN would be a requirement and how visible was that?

Sony sells Steam keys directly on their website with no mention of a PSN account being required (In fact the page explicitly states that you don't need one for any Playstation game on PC) . Officially licensed keys can also be purchased from Humble Bundle and Fanatical, which also don't list it as a requirement. While certainly the bulk of PC players bought the game from Steam, the requirement of a PSN account is inconsistently communicated to the public in the totality of the market. It's understandable that there was confusion about it ever being a requirement to begin with because they have mixed messaging on the requirement, and the game didn't actually require it even though the Steam page says that it does. But now they are going to require it. Except they might not require it if it's not available in certain regions. Again, an inconsistent message.

I'm not mad about the requirement. I'm mad that they pissed off all of my friends who played this game with me, to the point that I have no one to play this multiplayer game with. And they did that by never properly communicating what is required. I'm still not positive they are going to actually require a PSN account next month, but I am certain that a lot of my friends aren't going to come back no matter what. Rebuilding trust is a lot harder than building it the first time.

 

[iroboto]

Why isn't this badge:

View attachment 11256

...and the claim there was a message at the beginning of the game proof enough that this was their original intention? Why does the game feature that callout if it was never an intention to require PSN? Surely if this is new, that callout would have just been added the moment Sony changed their minds?


You guys have a lot more faith in the infallibility of corporations than me! I see screw-ups all the time and this matches that theory far more readily than it does the other more conspiratorial ones. Whatever department was responsible for the EULA wasn't clued in to the PSN requirement. Management discussed it amongst themselves but never got around to forwarding the memo. Is that really such a far-fetched notion that it's more plausible Sony added a PSN callout without intending to require PSN and then changed their minds?

So do I, but not because Sony have changed their minds but because they realised the old EULA was no longer valid for the latest game and subsequent plans.

On that I disagree. If Sony sold the game not requiring a PSN account, never intending that requirement, and then changed their minds and now do, they should be brought to task and raked over the coals. Which was my original sentiment when the story broke before I learned that the above callout was visible to every single buyer on Steam when they bought the game. I'd also like more clarity on the messaging in game - were users informed PSN would be a requirement and how visible was that?

Probably because it was allowed to be skipped and sold in countries where players could not get a PSN account indicated a legal mistake. In such large mistake, with both how they advertise it and the lack of legal. I cannot take the side that players are having fake outrage, and should have seen this coming 4 months later.

Skipping “linking” an account means it’s optional! If there are server issues, then there is a queue to get in. See Diablo 3 and 4 launch queue controversy.

I’m very very surprised you could skip a login. It’s not like 5 million players were all trying to get in at once. Certainly that shouldn’t be the case 4 months later. Both Sony and the developer are to blame here.

They launched a broken game that circumvented their own mandatory requirements that lacked legal language and now that it’s wildly successful they are trying to rope everyone back in.

There were 100 ways to Sunday to solve this without the disaster that is happening like offering a huge exclusive skin and goodies for those that link their accounts. But whoops.

 

[Charlietus]

What would they get from selling the game to countries without PSN support? I have seen people say that Sony did it on purpose to get as much money as possible, but after they removed the game from those countries it tells me that the situation is a lot more embarrassing

I can't believe that for them it was okay for people to just breach the TOS, so they just didn't think about it until now? Are they stupid?

 

[eastmen]

They have their own accounts!

View attachment 11252

View attachment 11253

How many of these do I need to post?! Sony aren't doing anything new to Steam that other publishers haven't been doing for years. The only difference here is the requirement wasn't in place from day one, and people started Helldivers 2 without being asked to log in to their PSN account. We're told that was for technical reasons, and the game blew up in popularity so that's not completely unrealistic considering how hokey we know PSN can be.

I don't buy these games on steam. So you can post 100,000 of them and it doesn't change anything.

People are now getting refunds so I put in for mine.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I don't buy these games on steam. So you can post 100,000 of them and it doesn't change anything.

It corrects your misunderstanding that other companies can issue bans without needing 3rd party accounts. You said:

the devs claim its for banning people. They claim that they don't get unique player data from steam.

So I really don't get how if true other games are able to ban players on steam ?

This proves how it is true, as other companies who want to ban people from their game also require 3rd party accounts.

The correct response is, "okay, I see now. It's clearly standard industry practice to have 3rd party accounts for multiplayer games. However, I'm still going ahead and getting a refund. Looks like you were right, Shifty, and refunds have been enabled in response to this just as you said it would in your first reply when you said "Thankfully Valve will have their backs and at least support refunds, and they are big enough to take Sony to task over this.". Good call!"

 

[iroboto]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/s/I6iF8V1GOR

Developers to blame here. They circumvented their own requirements and knew 6 months ahead that Sony wanted mandatory PS accounts.

Sony to blame for allowing the title to be sold in areas where they weren’t supposed to.

 

[Scott_Arm]

The weekly view of steamcharts seems to show this hasn't had any affect on the game at all. The monthly trend has been a slow steady decline as people wait for new content, I guess.

 

[Remij]

The weekly view of steamcharts seems to show this hasn't had any affect on the game at all. The monthly trend has been a slow steady decline as people wait for new content, I guess.

Yes it has. The game is completely out of the top 15 games globally on Steam now, sitting at 18th currently. That's a huge drop from where it was previously, which was typically in the top 5.

What this means is that there will be less players replacing players who'll stop playing, and a big hit to their revenue generated from sales.

 

[Scott_Arm]

@Remij I don't see any spikes or noticeable drops on the charts I posted. I just see a long gradual decline from an early peak. Steamcharts and steamdb are pretty good for looking at this stuff.

 

[iroboto]

Yes it has. The game is completely out of the top 15 games globally on Steam now, sitting at 18th currently. That's a huge drop from where it was previously, which was typically in the top 5.

What this means is that there will be less players replacing players who'll stop playing, and a big hit to their revenue generated from sales.

While I don’t know how big of a drop things will be June 4. I agree with your logic. If less people are purchasing than those leaving, the population will be in decline. June 4 will be interesting to see when the new EULA and ToS releases.