[H] Benchmarking Future Ed.

He did cherry pick the more emotional statements (though this particular thread is rife with them), but still, these things were said here.

Of course, that doesn't prove that you'll find more expert opinion in a yahoo forum (which was his contention).
 
RussSchultz said:
He did cherry pick the more emtional statements (though this particular thread is rife with them), but still, these things were said here.

Of course, that doesn't prove that you'll find more expert opinion in a yahoo forum (which was his contention).

Agreed. Something tells me things are finally getting to Kyle. I sincerely don't envy his position, but it is one he made himself.

[Joke mode ON]
Maybe Beyond3D and the forums should challenge him to a duel? Our 3D experts against his? That would definitely determine who knows what in the hell they're talking about! :D
[Joke mode OFF]

Sorry Kyle, but you have to agree this whole thing is humorous.

Tommy McClain
 
micron said:
An [H] forum member wrote...
Beyond 3D
You'll find many more informed opinions over at that site than you will anywhere.

Kyle wrote
Actually I think you can find more informed opinions in a Yahoo chatroom.

I like how your "experts" resort to name calling, conspiracy theories, picking apart hypothetical example, and simply discussing how they refuse to read the whole thing, but continue to comment on it like they know what the article states.

Here are some great quotes from your experts.

"Surprise! Surprise! Did he get $50,00 for this one? "

"Garbage, as usual "

"The real danger to Kyle with all of the nonsense he's spouting here is that people will begin to see how little he apparently understands about the very topics on which he opines... "

"That dood either need to stop doing drugs or start doing drugs because something is wrong with his brain."

"I'm just disapointed in myself for even reading the first page of that editorialmercial and giving that tool Kyle even 1 hit from me. "

"Well, I will not visit the site so I can't read the whole article. But based on the blurb that was copied, here is my translation: "

"He must be hallucinating or something. "

"And, this, children, is an example of just why drugs are bad for you........ "


I somehow am not as impressed by their expert opinions as you are. Sounds like fanboys riding their little radio flyer bandwagon around looking for someone to actually give them attention. But that is just my opinion.
Though Kyle doesnt post here anymore, he deffinately remains here with us. Hi Kyle ;)
OMG, I was quoted as a B3D expert! :LOL: I think I can die happy now. ;)

And here I thought that Kyle had forgotten all about me, it's re-assuring to know you still keep abreast of the real-world at least Kyle. :)

(BTW-Brent posted over at Rage3D about it, but totally NOT about it and evasive to even answer what he thought about it. :( )
 
Unit01 said:
lol can you say infinite delta? :D
that would be the gap between beyond3d and [H] in 3d knowledge.
There are some really smart posters over at [H], just as there are here. This is getting a little stupid.
 
Unit01 said:
lol can you say infinite delta? :D
that would be the gap between beyond3d and [H] in 3d knowledge.

Easy there. You shouldn't make the mistake Kyle==[H]. In fact, some of their recent reviews (Especially those of Brent) where among the best you could find for the reviewed product.
 
It is just all the same flamers posting there and other places now. I have better things to do than get in line for their verbal abuse. I have asked admins at other boards to get rid of the obvious flaming, but they will not do it.

My community interaction will stay in the [H]F for the most part. I like moving around but lately I like it here much better. Sensible folks with sensible thoughts that can share a difference in opinion is really what makes the interaction fun anyway.


__________________
 
Who cares ?? What is the infatuation with Kyle Micron...he likes it in his forums because he can ban and delete or lock threads he can't answer..I know ..been there.

I'm doing my part, avoiding the site and the drivel that spews from it, and that is the only way to make change.
 
Doomtrooper said:
I'm doing my part, avoiding the site and the drivel that spews from it, and that is the only way to make change.
Then why are you in this thread Doomtrooper?...why are you reading it?
You claim not to care about Kyle or [H] but your always joining in on the discussions concerning him or his site. Your actions speak louder then words.
*edit*
spelling
 
I replied once to the copied article, four words...garbage.

I then replied to your infatuation with [H], if you like it so much there...go there.
 
Doomtrooper said:
I replied once to the copied article, four words...garbage.

I then replied to your infatuation with [H], if you like it so much there...go there.
I do go there.
And yes, you did reply to the article, but still, here you are in a thread devoted to Kyles words, making claims that you avoid everything about Kyle, it just doesnt make sense, your contradicting yourself.
 
I post about Kyle and read about him and [T]ardOCP's adventures whenever I see a thread about 'em in a forum I'm at. It's sort of like slowing down when you go past a car accident to see if you can see anything. You don't really want to see, but you can't help but look.

In Kyle's case I think it's a good idea to waste a little time and energy to post up just how detached from reality Kyle's view is just to act as a counter-point of sanity to his widely read tripe.

That and it's now me personal crusade to stalk Brent until he talks one way or another, I wanna hear his take on this and he ain't safe on any board anywhere until he responds to it. :devilish:
 
It's sort of like slowing down when you go past a car accident to see if you can see anything. You don't really want to see, but you can't help but look.

Remember the old talk shows like Oprah on 'sweeps week' when they would have crazy subjects like "I married a transexual" or Trash TV, Kyle uses the same antics :D
 
It reads to me more nuanced than what I would have thot from the reaction here. Possibly wrong-headed, but I think he is reaching for something here that could be of value. It seems to me that he has a a key idea here that most of his edifice is built on:

"We are going to see D3D games that behave differently within the same API. As the video card companies move forward with developing tighter bonds with game developers and publishing houses, there is no doubt we are going to see more hardware specific effects in games. Depending on your hardware, your game experience may differ. To what extent is yet to be seen, but we think that this alone will show that the days of apples to apples is coming to a close as the proprietary hardware technologies diverge. While this is just speculation, we think that NVIDIA moving some of their high-end business to IBM will facilitate this happening more rapidly as each faction of the video wars becomes a bit more shielded from each other’s technology." Later on, he adds: "Also, we do think we will see a hardware specific title in the next 24 months if not sooner. While we hope we are wrong on this, it does look that a console-type business model will be tested out in the PC gaming arena."


If he's right on that (which with my extremely limited understanding of things I thought that was what DirectX had put an end to, more or less) he may have a point.

A couple other interesting points:

I've edited a chunk below together that seems to me connected, but I warn you in advance that this is my editing. I find them connected, others might call it selective editing. You don't like it; go read for yourself:

"Quite simply, NVIDIA has changed the rules of synthetic benchmarking. Synthetics were understood to be free standing utilities that were not optimized for. We think that is how the hardware community saw these tools. . .NVIDIA is optimizing for benchmarks quite clearly and that is something we will have to deal with. It seems certain that they are not alone in doing that, but from what information we have been privy to in the last month it certainly seems to us that NVIDIA is doing a bit more optimizing than their competition. . .When 3DMark03 recently fell from grace, we knew there were sure to be others. This is far from over in my opinion. "

And finally the payoff: "We have an idea that the gaming and hardware communities need to come together and form a not-for-profit organization to work on this issue as a team. Benchmarking for money is simply out of the question as FutureMark has proven that business model to be full of holes to say the least. Our communities need to self-regulate and decide how to best facilitate the needs of the consumer that ultimately pay all our bills."

What's wrong with that? Will an IHV dare to cheat a test that is backed by, say, the 10 largest review websites, when the agreement also states that a finding of c/h/e/a/t/i/n/g/ "inappropriate optimization" will ban them from coverage on ALL of those sites for a period of, say, 6 months?

Okay, rip me a new one now. :D
 
kemosabe said:
Well, while Kyle may be having some difficulty with the basic principles underlying this benchmarking controversy, Rich Huddy at ATI certainly isn't holding anything back: http://slike.slo-tech.com/masses/index.html

Is being a former NVIDIA employee a prerequisite for being so "outspoken"? :LOL:
Excellent read!
almost every games developer I know drinks too much caffeine and works too many hours in the ordinary working day. We need to work smarter not harder. Using the high level shading languages are a major part of this, but generally the life of a games developer is pretty tough.
 
Kyle wrote
Actually I think you can find more informed opinions in a Yahoo chatroom.

I like how your "experts" resort to name calling, conspiracy theories, picking apart hypothetical example, and simply discussing how they refuse to read the whole thing, but continue to comment on it like they know what the article states.

Here are some great quotes from your experts.

"Surprise! Surprise! Did he get $50,00 for this one? "

"Garbage, as usual "

"The real danger to Kyle with all of the nonsense he's spouting here is that people will begin to see how little he apparently understands about the very topics on which he opines... "

"That dood either need to stop doing drugs or start doing drugs because something is wrong with his brain."

"I'm just disapointed in myself for even reading the first page of that editorialmercial and giving that tool Kyle even 1 hit from me. "

"Well, I will not visit the site so I can't read the whole article. But based on the blurb that was copied, here is my translation: "

"He must be hallucinating or something. "

"And, this, children, is an example of just why drugs are bad for you........ "


I somehow am not as impressed by their expert opinions as you are. Sounds like fanboys riding their little radio flyer bandwagon around looking for someone to actually give them attention. But that is just my opinion.


You know, it seems miraculous to me that Kyle would view these quotes as "comments"...what about all of the substantive comments disputing his assertions and conclusions? There are far more words written to that than there are jabs of the nature he quotes. Isn't he just as guilty as those he accuses of refusing "...to read the whole thing, but continue to comment on it like they know what the article states." He obviously isn't reading the considered criticism he's getting.

Kyle, I think those of us who have commented know what your opinions are as you have stated them for the past several weeks. Why won't you debate your positions in a neutral forum like B3d where everyone, including you, is free to state his opinions without fear of censure? Do yourself a favor and quit hiding behind your editorial pages--you might be surprised at the support you'd pick up if you could defend your positions. But if you can't defend them, or won't defend them, don't be surprised to see such support as you have erode.
 
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