GT4 VS REALITY

chap said:
"As a boradband Only-game, GT4 will allow up to six-player simultaneaouse battles on almost any course. We can't confirm at this time but rain courses may once again be limited to four players, due to hardware limitations." (<-- i was hoping for no reduction this time..)
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:rolleyes:

As if you really cared Chap - the AI was so damn bad, that chances that you saw another car other than your own during races was so small to beginn with, that I find it SERIOUSLY doubtful that anyone would really care. When will this pathetic crusade end?
 
Zidane wrote:
My God that place still hasn't gone down... just entered a ps3vsxbox2 thread... and here's an example of the community you're dealing with:
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1. PVC is not a technical board like this one.

2. Perhaps because of that, there tends to be more people passing in and out of the place, and a lot of them are loons.

4. Some of the people who post there are really very nice.

3. Is it really necessary to post some of the more idiotic passages from that board? Really, if you don't like it - and nobody says you have to - then just don't go there and thank your lucky stars for B3D.

Kolgar
 
Re: Lets try again........

A detailed road is not a bad thing. When you slam a wall, slow for a turn, or when your jsut starting a race you can see the road fine. But apparently all of you anti-chap people seem to be perfect racers and never fall below the "200kph" line.

I personally have stopped in games just to admire the scenery and go "wow".

In Microsoft Rally Sport (think thats the name), when me and my freinds are just goofing around you notice those things alot. Especially the tire mark things when you spin out and stuff and it looks like you left those rut things behind. Saying bumpmapping on roads is bad or unwanted isnt true. Unless you can get the effect with some other method.

If you are so dull that you have never done anything in a racing dame except go from start to finish then you must be a boring person.
 
Don't look at me. My style of "racing game" comes more in the form of a San Francisco Rush or a Crazy Taxi or perhaps a GTA3... I don't care much for FPS or shineys. ;) I want interesting concepts and imaginative tracks and funky stuff to screw around with.

But it would seem GT4 and PGR2 are in no way that kind of game, so other things are would be emphsized. And for driving sims of those calibur, I don't think I would ever vote on gameplay taking a back-seat to graphics.
 
Phil said:
:rolleyes:

As if you really cared Chap - the AI was so damn bad, that chances that you saw another car other than your own during races was so small to beginn with, that I find it SERIOUSLY doubtful that anyone would really care. When will this pathetic crusade end?
Click to expand...

What crusade??? Obviously the wet tracks demanded more graphics and hence they dropped the number of cars. I am disappointed just as i was with PGR2 30fps, are you not? ;)

Which brings me to a question...

Why-oh-why are the wet tracks so revered in GT3???

Hell, we have already seen a reduction in number of cars, the surroundings arent any more detailed as normal tracks, most of it are darky dark, nice misty mist but nothing unseen before, and of course the track roads are all the same, same as every other racers from the dawn of 3D racers, since we drive at 999mph every hour, cant see the difference......puzzled-puzzled... :?: :? :?:
 
chaphack said:
Why-oh-why are the wet tracks so revered in GT3???

Hell, we have already seen a reduction in number of cars, the surroundings arent any more detailed as normal tracks, most of it are darky dark, nice misty mist but nothing unseen before, and of course the track roads are all the same, same as every other racers from the dawn of 3D racers, since we drive at 999mph every hour, cant see the difference......puzzled-puzzled... :?: :? :?:
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Proof positive, once again, that Chap just doesn't "get" the driving game. Wet tracks tax your driving skills to the limit due to the reduced traction and additional instability in the cars as a result of the wet tracks. It's not just about making up a scenario just to throw in some "wetness" effects- though they are certainly welcome and fun to look at.

It's also not about having 6 cars to race vs. "only" 4. If you are just average, you'll be stuck in the middle of the pack somewhere. If you suck, you'll be left behind. If you can truly drive, you'll be ahead of the pack. Whether or not it is 4, 6, or 60 cars matters very little wrt this distinction.

Me thinks there are people out there who actually play videogames purely by the bulletpoint features, not the actual content or the spirit of the game. That is just sad. :cry:
 
Whatever you say. You win ok? Road details look alll the same when we go 999mph every hour, ok? Its your game you playing. :D

Though i vividly remember people praising GT3 wet tracks more often for its asethetics(sp?). Furthermore, didnt someone mentioned about specular lighting acheiving almost similar to BM. Why mention it, at all, if its ALL THE SAME! :oops:

NOTE: To all racing developers, please use the lowest of lowest texture resolution for your tracks, and churn up the other aspects. Hell, do the same with the surroundings. Damn Polyphony for having more geometric details in their new NY track!!! What a waste of resources. o_O

Long live Virtua Racing!
 
Ooh!! But the replays!!!!! Why does everyone forget the replays!?!?

Bump mapping and wet track effects are not much use during racing.
Seriously, one can not see much bumpmapping when racing at any respectable speeds.

But during replays, that's when the bumpmapped road looks nice.

About the topic; imo Polyphony has achieved a very realistic look with GT3/Concept/GT4, that no otehr racer has yet achieved.
Could it be because subtle and well thought out use of effects.
The lighting and colours are so natural, there is no such artificial, overly clean and shiny look that is present in every other racer.
It can be clearly noticed, that the developers and artists have studied the real world racing, and how it looks very closely, and succesfully replicated the look in PS2.

There is dithering in those screenshots at close up car textures (the border between car lower and upper body). That was present in Gt3/Concept too.
Guess that was a texturing decision to make some kind of 'self shadowing' for the car. It works in normal distances, but close up it is ugly.
 
Phil said:
So true. I am almost certain though, that I heard numbers around 7+ million pps for GT3 in various articles after the game was released. If it was way below 6, it does come to a suprise, but also makes the feat way more impressive. Then again, I remember some tracks having lots of geometry (Seattle) while others simply lacked them (Laguna S. track)...
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Well, I only know the numbers it got from PA, which I've already explained have to be taken with a specific context and are completely useless compared to anything else then another PA number.
That said, I suspect PA results is what the article talking about GT4 numbers might have been referring to.

Chap said:
ANYWAY, it has always been taken that GT3 cars hover around the 5000pps mark.
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Rather try ~2.5-4k.

Anyway, the road texture resolution thing is the age old argument of diminishing returns. It also reminds me of modelled vs textured wheel spoke argument. You can only see the extra wheel detail if car is completely stopped - and that's like <1% of the normal game time (same for road, anything over 10km/h is a blurry streak in real life too).
Does it look better in still shot to have the extra detail? Sure, especially in screenshots fans will gawk at :p But reality is most people will glaze over the difference like that, so the question whether the extra resource is worth the small gain is always there.
It should also be noted that simply slapping a highres map there will make the road look terrible in motion (or modelled wheel) you will always need some way or another to mimick the motion blurred look in motion.

The one thing about GT series that I truly admire is how they don't waste unnecessary graphical resources while maintaining the high integrity of overall appearance.

I'm not saying anything about the bump argument - everyone does specular shine of the road some way or the other, and bumpmapping is one means to the 'same' end.
In Apex world the roads just aren't made of asphalt or tarmac but some other yet uknown material - doesn't mean they don't look pretty though :p

Guess that was a texturing decision to make some kind of 'self shadowing' for the car. It works in normal distances, but close up it is ugly.
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Well the trick they do is baking a form of radiosity shading into the car textures(it includes 'selfshadows' from side mirrors :p ) Car textures are 4bit though, so dithering is the only way to get shades without banding.
 
[URL said:
http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200309/N03.0917.1009.39460.htm[/URL]]Recently at the Sony Gamers Day, Gran Turismo 4 creator Kazunori Yamauchi was overheard confirming that his latest game will utilize the Sony Hard Disk Drive and will allow players to download new content for the game. Details are sketchy at this point, but we'll keep you posted as more details are announced.
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From the initial announcment that GT4 would have some 500 cars and 200 tracks, I always thought they meant that eventually you'd be able to download new tracks and cars, and that in the game disc there would be somewhat less cars and tracks.
Will they be charging for each car and track?
How about if gamers are allowed to swap/sell cars between each other, then Sony selling new car models online would not make much sense.
 
gtfp01.jpg


Nice 8)
 
The new Game engine in game 'displays' about 6 million polygons a second.
This does not include untextured or non-display performance.

6Mil a sec? Sounds like a professional digital camera to me. ;)

---

In reply to the title: The Differance
$500 & a TV
vs
$30K, a gas card, And a lot of traveling.

Really whether or not you have an awesome car, this game will make it that much more fun to drive.
Because of GT3 I think about my lanes and anticipate other cars responses before seeing them happen.

The new game, GT4 offers roughly 500 cars and 100 tracks.
STOP!! Re-read the previous line.
Try to picture one ladder step for each car.
Now try to imagine 100 ladders that have 500 steps each for you to climb.

The physics in the previous one are damn close.
We took out a WRX, Mitsubishi 3000GT, NSX, Accord, Civic, Suzuki Sidekick, etc
Of them I only drove the WRX, Beetle, & Sidekick, but it was eerily close especially the WRX.

I don't care if it's online or not. I want GT4 in my home in its finest form.
This new steering wheel is enough to freak me out too.
Try racing chicanes in a rally car turning the wheel lock to lock from one corner to the next.
No longer do you go from high noon to 5 right or 7 left.
Now there will be times when you whip all the way around past noon in either direction.
And then have to recover your steering position, ready for the next turn.

A lot of people are going to over compensate because they’re not used to having so much room for input.
Sloppy fishtailing and ditch running is how a lot of people are going to start out
Hell, I'll probably have an embankment named after me 'South' for all the time I put in.
Point is I think we can all learn a lot about real driving techniques from GT4.

So I guess the difference is...
A reset button instead of Insurance, Towing, and Ticket fees.
 
http://www.polygonmag.com/news/index.php?id=821
Sony Holds GT4 Party

By Dennis Day, News Editor
Published September 23, 2003 -- 12:59 pm CDT

Sony unveiled a new playable version of their eagerly awaited PlayStation 2 racer "Gran Turismo 4" today at a special promotional event for Toyota's redesigned hybrid vehicle "Prius." Speaking at the event was series producer Kazunori Yamauchi and several associated development team members. By partnering with Toyota during the development of Gran Turismo 4, Sony managed to simulate the complexities of Toyota's hybrid electric and gas powered vehicle. For example, the game realistically features S-VSC (Steering Assisted Vehicle Stability Control) available in the Prius. Visually, the cockpit of the vehicle including digital display and speedometer are faithfully represented as well.
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Does this mean GT4 will have a 'dash board view' while driving?
 
Does this mean GT4 will have a 'dash board view' while driving?
Click to expand...

Sounds like it to me. Why else put in the effort to copy the gauges?

Wow really impressive.
In the past with some pc games I've really hated dash board view.
I think that had more to do with viewing angle and the fact that the dash meant nothing to me.
All the NASCAR & F1 cars had almost identical dashes.
Even viper racing was like that. (All viper cars :p)

But now...not only is the steering wheel input correct...
...If the viewing angle/perspective is acceptable the experience will be complete.
(A Big if. Since I've never liked the dash limiting my view.)

Still what is Gran Turismo labeled as?
The Real Life Driving Simulator? (Sounds right?)
If it's done well, and true to the confidence I have in them. I think we'll be happy.
 
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