Asking graphical artists - How difficult is it to make Forza motorsport look as good, or better, as GT7?
- Thread starter ZebMacahan
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This video illustrates exactly what I talked about and what I showed with the FM photos. In the time lapse GT video, when the sun shines through the clouds around 1.10 sec, the light should illuminate the left side of the track, and in fact it is not. In Forza, the light beams realistically illuminate the corner of the track where the light falls. FM's lighting system is more advanced, of course this does not mean the game is always more photorealistic, but it is more advanced.
Yeah I have no idea what he's talking about lol. GT7 environment lighting also changes according to the cloud cover in real-time, and there's more variety in the atmospheric effects and varying weather pattern types. They even simulated the night time astronomy, and a dry racing line develops on the road with cars pushing water off the race track during rain.
If you set the weather to dynamic in Forza, it's literally the same cloud pattern until it does a sudden swap to overcast skybox for rain, and when it stops raining it goes back to the exact same cloud pattern as before. GT7 actually has cloud patterns dispersing and clumping together to form new cloud types.
When the sunlight peaks through the clouds, it also illuminates that part of the track in gt7
Yes, but I was talking about when in the same period with a difference of a few minutes, e.g. after completing a lap, the light illuminates certain parts of the track depending on the position of the clouds.When the sunlight peaks through the clouds, it also illuminates that part of the track in gt7
For example, in the two pictures I showed, where the sun emerges from behind the clouds and illuminates the right side of the track. I could have taken more pictures here, because after the light illuminates the back of the track, the buildings at the beginning a little later, then changes again depending on the position of the clouds, i.e. it illuminates different areas again.
This is not the same as the simple illumination of the angle of the sun on the track when the time of day changes, which Forza can also do, and most of the racing games so far that have the time of day change.
This is an illumination dependent on the position of constantly changing volumetric clouds, which so far only FM can do in such an advanced way. And it can actually be quite spectacular visually.
I am still trying to understand how that's NOT what GT7 does also
I mean....the clouds in Forza aren't exactly moving whereas GT's are moving, casting shadows with those and the direction of the sun affecting how the environment receives light. In Forza clouds are changing a bit their silluette on the edges only. Also are you confusing a faster time lapse of Forza with GT's slower one?
As I understand it, QPlayer's saying that GT7's cloud cover is all or nothing, covering the entire track in a 'cloud percent', whereas Forza's shadows are individual to each cloud. GT7's timelapses are too fast to show if the cloud cover is regional or global shadowing, and Vspectra's images could just be TOD rather than a hole in the cloud cover. QPlayer's images show patches of shadow/sun, not just a blanket.I am still trying to understand how that's NOT what GT7 does also
That may not necessarily be the case. Clouds in GT probably cast subtle shadows as well. You can see in these time laps subtle patches flashing (due to the time laps speed).
It may be less pronounced since GT tends to do things in balance and closer to how reality looks like, whereas Forza tends to exaggerate effects to give a more dramatic visual presentation similar to how DF was pointing out effects like wet surfaces in Forza being over reflective.
Also one thing you can spot here
Clouds in Forza 8 are fixed to specific locations, not fully dynamic. They are the same clouds with changes only on their silluette. That "helps" observe changes between angle of light and cloud shadows and precalculate or "bake" cloud shadow casts.
In GT clouds are generated, moving, dissolving, expanding, contracting etc dynamically all the time, requiring more complex calculations. It is impossible to observe something that isn't "stationary" every minute as in Forza and it may also be more intensive to execute as every random generated volumetric cloud must be able to cast quality shadows on every surface the track.
So the result may be highlighting Forza's weakness with GT incorporating a more complex dynamic cloud system, thus coming with its own limitations.
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if people want to know how that works in GT7
Strong cloud shadows are definitely a reality in real life and their rendering isn't necessarily an exaggeration for artistic effect.
Yes, prebaked light shapes would help with specific cloud shadows and could explain a difference between the two systems.
So GT7 is not rendering individual cloud shadows at that level, but applying the cloud texture as occlusion, as I see it. Simulates software clouds. It'd be wrong to call Forza 'technically superior' at this point - they are just taking different finite solutions to a specific, complex problem that cannot be solved perfectly in our limited boxes.
Also, this is what's wrong with the world with these days...
These sorts of names are a necessary backbone of civilisation but they are nigh extinct.
