GPU Ray Tracing Performance Comparisons [2021-2022]

So, I remember speculation during the Turing generation here about whether and when RT only games would start to appear. We're now getting close to the 2nd generation after Turing (so 3rd generation RT hardware on NV's side) and the only game requiring RT (that I'm aware of) is an enhanced edition of a game from 2019 (development started in 2014) which also has a version that doesn't require RT. So technically you don't need RT to play the game but you do need RT to play that version of the game.

I do wonder now whether or not we'll see any AAA developer even attempt a game that requires RT until the next console generation as AAA game revenue and budgeting is so reliant on consoles and an RT only game on console is likely going to look like "last gen." game with RT, like Metro: Exodus. IE - we may not see a AAA developer attempt an RT only game until somewhere in the 2025-2030 timeframe (potential new console generation). More likely towards the latter part of that as I'm not currently aware of any AAA game in development that will require RT. Obviously, that doesn't mean there isn't one as I don't track all AAA games in development.

In many ways, it's unfortunate that the current generation of consoles is basically just using first generation RT hardware which will limit the ability of developers to create a game from the ground up that relies on global RT illumination. OTOH - it's probably still better than no RT support as even the limited RT hardware acceleration that the current gen consoles have is enough to at least allow developers to experiment with limited RT effects which can only help when the next generation of consoles come out and they can potentially start to think about creating a game centered around hardware accelerated global RT lighting combined with high density environmental detail.

Regards,
SB

Microsoft pretty much blocked RT adoption as well as next gen only games with the release of the series s. You have to support series s for xbox console support, but series s is just too weak. In my opinion that's also the reason, why we have so few next gen games. If you're already downscaling your game to the series s, you can go further and bring it to last gen if you're not cpu limited. But you can't use RT in last gen and series s is so limited, that it makes no real sense. So you have to spend extra time for the RT solution.

But at least there seems to be a trend to wider RT adoption. More and more newer games are getting it or it's even patched in as in RE.
 
Microsoft pretty much blocked RT adoption as well as next gen only games with the release of the series s. You have to support series s for xbox console support, but series s is just too weak. In my opinion that's also the reason, why we have so few next gen games. If you're already downscaling your game to the series s, you can go further and bring it to last gen if you're not cpu limited. But you can't use RT in last gen and series s is so limited, that it makes no real sense. So you have to spend extra time for the RT solution.

But at least there seems to be a trend to wider RT adoption. More and more newer games are getting it or it's even patched in as in RE.
Series S scales fine down from Series X. The biggest problem is the different RAM configuration but it shouldn't be much of an issue for RT support. There's also no requirement for feature parity so Series S can get less things done with RT for example.
 
Not sure how these are calculated (at least triangle intersection), but if so, shows why XSX can't get away from PS5 in RT performance. Really just a 15-18% difference.

That's always been the case on paper.

I am curious as to see if PS5's high clocks will help over slower clocks but more RT units in the real world as not many RT games show that 15-18% RT gap.
 
So, I remember speculation during the Turing generation here about whether and when RT only games would start to appear. We're now getting close to the 2nd generation after Turing (so 3rd generation RT hardware on NV's side) and the only game requiring RT (that I'm aware of) is an enhanced edition of a game from 2019 (development started in 2014) which also has a version that doesn't require RT. So technically you don't need RT to play the game but you do need RT to play that version of the game.

I do wonder now whether or not we'll see any AAA developer even attempt a game that requires RT until the next console generation as AAA game revenue and budgeting is so reliant on consoles and an RT only game on console is likely going to look like "last gen." game with RT, like Metro: Exodus. IE - we may not see a AAA developer attempt an RT only game until somewhere in the 2025-2030 timeframe (potential new console generation). More likely towards the latter part of that as I'm not currently aware of any AAA game in development that will require RT. Obviously, that doesn't mean there isn't one as I don't track all AAA games in development.

I do wonder if a non-AAA developer who might be less reliant on console gaming income would be more inclined to attempt a game that requires RT hardware in order to run, but then non-AAA developers are also more reliant on making their games available to the widest possible spectrum of hardware in order to attempt to get as many buyers as they can considering their limited consumer reach compared to AAA devs/publishers.

For me, that seems unfortunate as I'm really interested to see what a game would look like if it was crafted from the ground up with no requirement for any form of legacy lighting. I don't care about reflections nearly as much as I do about lighting, so I don't really care if they would still use legacy reflection techniques to save performance. BTW - when I reference RT only for a game, that's how I'm thinking about it. All the lighting in game done via hardware accelerated RT, but not reflections. Other people might also have reflections be included in that. :) Reflections might be more difficult to pull off since not only are they more immediately noticeable, but it's also much easier to immediately notice how they don't look right if there are multiple reflective surfaces and reflections of reflective surfaces don't themselves show reflections. If I'm going to be seeing jarring (to me) discontinuities in the presentation of reflections, I'll personally just disable them or reduce their quality (IE - non-RT reflections) so that performance can go towards something more important to me, lighting.

Metro: Exodus while giving some hints isn't a great showcase for that due to the low geometric detail of the game combined with uneven use of the global RT lighting in game. For example, the lack of cinematic lighting compared to the base game meant the lighting in the game looked natural due to the global RT lighting but also flat in cinematic scenes due to lack of any attempt at cinematic style lighting. This was most noticeable on character faces during conversations where they might often not be in direct lighting or even be in shadow meaning it was harder to see facial detail or expressions. This is something I expect the art director and lighting teams will address once they have to contend with an RT only lighting path, and I'm really excited to see what they do here. And then the low geometric detail combined with fully RT'd lighting is itself jarring as that exposes just how low poly everything is and thus reduces the graphical impact of the game due to how RT lighting makes it far more noticeable.

I suspect that 4A Games might be the only AAA developer (borderline high AA developer in terms of budget) might be the only one to attempt a game that will require RT in order to have fully global RT lighting and visuals designed from the ground up for it. Although I do wonder if their need to sell well on consoles will make them second guess themselves on that. After all, will it be able to visually match and distinguish itself from the competition on consoles who would be able to dedicate more of their performance budget on other potentially more noticeable graphical improvements?

In many ways, it's unfortunate that the current generation of consoles is basically just using first generation RT hardware which will limit the ability of developers to create a game from the ground up that relies on global RT illumination. OTOH - it's probably still better than no RT support as even the limited RT hardware acceleration that the current gen consoles have is enough to at least allow developers to experiment with limited RT effects which can only help when the next generation of consoles come out and they can potentially start to think about creating a game centered around hardware accelerated global RT lighting combined with high density environmental detail.

Regards,
SB

Sony's big AAA games will, at some point I imagine only work on RT hardware as they only have PS5 to worry about.

I can imagine naughty Dog having an RTGI solution that absolutely requires RT hardware.

Microsoft and multiplat devs are in a different situation as they will have none RT systems to contend with.
 
Maybe, once the PS5 Pro appears... Then PS5 games run at 1080p RT upscaled to 4K and PS5 Pro games run at 1440p RT upscaled to 4K?

Why would PS5 Pro run at 1440p?

I think current ML upscaling does a decent enough job that processing on 1440p seems a little wasteful.
 
PS5 Pro at more than 2x the performance of PS5 may be quite a stretch...

You've confused me, I've not talked about a theoretical PS5 Pro's performance vs PS5 or put a number on it.

I stated that I feel running PS5 Pro at native 1440p when ML from 1080p is 'good enough' (imo) seems wasteful.
 
You've confused me, I've not talked about a theoretical PS5 Pro's performance vs PS5 or put a number on it.

I stated that I feel running PS5 Pro at native 1440p when ML from 1080p is 'good enough' (imo) seems wasteful.
Oh I see what you're saying, that 1080p is a good enough baseline for upscaling to 4K. Well I disagree, but then we head off into total thread derailment, so let's stop there.
 
Sony's big AAA games will, at some point I imagine only work on RT hardware as they only have PS5 to worry about.

I can imagine naughty Dog having an RTGI solution that absolutely requires RT hardware.

Microsoft and multiplat devs are in a different situation as they will have none RT systems to contend with.

Why would MS be supporting hardware that is from 2017 and older. If/when we see true next generation games that non-RT hardware will be close to seven years old, which is about the entirity of a console generation. If you were attacking XSS, i think it wouldnt be holding back the XSX either.
Anyway, the consoles are not powerfull enough to go full-on ray tracing, the RT performance is just too weak. The raster performance probably isnt enough either as that requirement will also increase.

Oh I see what you're saying, that 1080p is a good enough baseline for upscaling to 4K. Well I disagree, but then we head off into total thread derailment, so let's stop there.

His PS5 vs PC/Xbox belongs in the console section i think.
 
Sony's big AAA games will, at some point I imagine only work on RT hardware as they only have PS5 to worry about.

I can imagine naughty Dog having an RTGI solution that absolutely requires RT hardware.

Microsoft and multiplat devs are in a different situation as they will have none RT systems to contend with.
Sony is also developing for PC. Although sure they could say RT is required, then they will have to make the baseline RT much higher than XSS for that to make a difference.

MS & multiplats will have hybrid RT engine implementations through the generation. I've thought that even without XSS based on RDNA2 RT performance.
 
That's always been the case on paper.

I am curious as to see if PS5's high clocks will help over slower clocks but more RT units in the real world as not many RT games show that 15-18% RT gap.
Typically, I would agree, that's about the only difference we expect on paper. But in specialized applications, sometimes when you exceed the threshold, the bottleneck results in stalling the whole pipeline. This is why we see such a large gap between 4Pro and X1X in resolution; it largely came down to RAM availability. With RT, it is difficult to predict what is the bottleneck, in this case, faster clock speed shouldn't result in precisely the same performance because the BVH tree needs to be accessed through memory and most RT bounces are incoherent putting more pressure on memory access than compute, so having more bandwidth should have been a factor there.
 
Sony is also developing for PC. Although sure they could say RT is required, then they will have to make the baseline RT much higher than XSS for that to make a difference.

MS & multiplats will have hybrid RT engine implementations through the generation. I've thought that even without XSS based on RDNA2 RT performance.

I can't see Sony limiting PS exclusives graphically for the sake of making games work on PC, especially as there's currently loads of PS games that still aren't on PC and the ones that do take a number of years to get ported giving PC chance to catch up with RT hardware availability.

MS release all games on PC so by default all of their games will need to have a raster and RT path.

At some point, all games will have RT hardware as a minimum requirement on PC and I can see that happening within the next 3-4 years.
 
MS release all games on PC so by default all of their games will need to have a raster and RT path.
Very much doubtful that PC will in any way keep any of console platform holders in deciding what tech they use in their games.
Also you make it sound like PC doesn't have any RT h/w right now while in practice there are not a lot of non-RT options available on PC since 2020.
 
PC is more restrictive as a platform in enabling games to be "pure RT no raster" (though some kind of rasterisation is required in order to determine which rays to trace). This is because the penetration of RT in PC is lower than the 100% of PS5 and PS5 Pro consoles - whenever it is that Sony chooses to loosen PS5 from the PS4 shackles...
 
Very much doubtful that PC will in any way keep any of console platform holders in deciding what tech they use in their games.
Also you make it sound like PC doesn't have any RT h/w right now while in practice there are not a lot of non-RT options available on PC since 2020.

Microsoft are at a higher risk of having to include Raster+RT pipe in their exclusives because of PC than Sony are.

There being non RT options on PC right now is the whole point of what I wrote.
 
This is because the penetration of RT in PC is lower than the 100% of PS5 and PS5 Pro consoles - whenever it is that Sony chooses to loosen PS5 from the PS4 shackles...
That "100%" looks good in theory but makes no sense if you want to actually compare the RT h/w markets in actual units - i.e. the size of addressable market.
Back in Jan 2021 Nvidia has reported 20 millions of RTX GPUs as sold.
PS5 has hit the same figure in Jun 2022.
I don't think that it's out of realm of possibility to theorize that PC RT h/w market is actually comparable in its size currently to PS5+XS units sold combined.
 
That "100%" looks good in theory but makes no sense if you want to actually compare the RT h/w markets in actual units - i.e. the size of addressable market.
Back in Jan 2021 Nvidia has reported 20 millions of RTX GPUs as sold.
PS5 has hit the same figure in Jun 2022.
I don't think that it's out of realm of possibility to theorize that PC RT h/w market is actually comparable in its size currently to PS5+XS units sold combined.

It took RTX 2yrs and 3 months to hit 20 million installed, PS5 did that in 1yr and 7 months, with massive hardware shortages.

But comparing RTX GPU's sold is pointless due to mining, there was one guy on tiktok who had over 1000 RTX's GPU in his mining farm, people aren't buying 1000's of PS5's for use in mining farms.

Saying Nvidia reported 20 million RTX GPU's sold is irrelevant, what is relevant is how many of those RTX GPU's ended up in actual gaming PC's to play games on, because it isn't 20 million.

If a developer makes a PS5 exclusive they know that 100% of their potential customer base has hardware RT capable GPU, the same can not be said for PC and it'll likely take years before that to ring true for PC.
 
Microsoft are at a higher risk of having to include Raster+RT pipe in their exclusives because of PC than Sony are.

There being non RT options on PC right now is the whole point of what I wrote.
Steam you mean. XBOX as a platform can push the boundaries forward to keep in line with the console's feature sets, it should be a non-issue really.
 
That "100%" looks good in theory but makes no sense if you want to actually compare the RT h/w markets in actual units - i.e. the size of addressable market.
Back in Jan 2021 Nvidia has reported 20 millions of RTX GPUs as sold.
PS5 has hit the same figure in Jun 2022.
I don't think that it's out of realm of possibility to theorize that PC RT h/w market is actually comparable in its size currently to PS5+XS units sold combined.
A publisher of a game on PC can't ignore the billions of GTX 1060s, 1070s and 1080s ;) The PC market will transition to exclusive "pure RT, no raster" more slowly...
 
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