One thing I'm worrying about now is how can they out do the epicness of GOW3? Really I mean it doesn't get any bigger than taking on all the gods and titans unless they go back to the first Titan war time frame which I doubt Ascension would do. Also Kratos would not be anywhere near as powerful or equipped as him in the third entry. SSM better have something really special to impressive us if they want to surpass the wow factor of GOW3. What do you all think?
God Of War Ascension PS3
- Thread starter ultragpu
- Start date
Isn't that what most people want?
Not sure if full deferred is the way forward, they had very interesting forward rendering method in GoW3. (Combining lights in vertex level to ease pixel shader load.)
I do agree that graphically GoW3 should be topped quite nicely, cannot wait for tech papers..
Agreed wholeheartedly. Kratos is what would happen if you combined Mike Tyson and He-Man. He looks stupid, acts stupid, is stupid.
Billy Idol
Legend
Well Siegfried, the whole series started because Kratos 'accidently' killed his familiy....Kratos was never likeable imo, was especially never designed to be a likeable character!
Also, Kratos never was intended to be some kind of smart Professor...just a raging killing machine, typically driven by impulsive anger and not by brainstorming a certain situation on a flip chart before deciding how to react. But often in Greek mythology, the gods are super smart and the people have rather limited minds, so that the gods can do their game with them....that fits well in the whole setting imo!
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Also, Kratos never was intended to be some kind of smart Professor...just a raging killing machine, typically driven by impulsive anger and not by brainstorming a certain situation on a flip chart before deciding how to react. But often in Greek mythology, the gods are super smart and the people have rather limited minds, so that the gods can do their game with them....that fits well in the whole setting imo!
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Billy Idol
Legend
RobertR1 said:
Your welcome!
DuckThor Evil
Legend
I didn't have any problems with Kratos being what he was in GoW 3. The dude was pretty much gone by that point, filled with rage and hate. It was only fitting to see him as a monster. After having seen the conclusion for him (should have ended with the first game, or as a final boss in the second game) I just see zero point and interest in going back to him in a prequel. He is going to be more human and likeable in this one, but I don't care I know the end already. I'd almost rather get a new updated version of the first game with some new stuff and stunning graphics and just pretend that the series ended there.
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Oedipus "accidentally" killed his father and had children with his mother. He brought disaster to the kingdom and took off his eyes when he found out. He is a similar tragic character to Kratos. Oedipus regretted and was haunted by his actions. But you see, Kratos' mistakes had no effect on his character. Because of GoW2 and 3 it appears that the past didnt teach him any lesson. To the contrary he became even more merciless, he acted worse than he did before he killed his family, he was committing hubris against the Gods which usually leads to the fall of the one doing it in Greek mythology (but not in GoW2 and 3).
Ironically what Kratos hated in Ares and what Ares was doing in GoW1, he became the exact same asshole and then decided to multiply it by 100. He was causing pain and misery to everyone, killed families and other people's loved ones, and he was terrorizing and destroying cities just as Ares was doing in Athens in GoW1.
There is no sense of katharsis in the story after the first game, because he went into a mindless killing spree, with no real purpose, no real goal. It was all about revenge because the Gods turned against him, when he was killing and destroying Greece without giving a damn about the rest. He basically wanted revenge because the Gods tried to stop his selfishness.
Its like you are trying to stop your troubled child from harming others even though you had your best intentions, and then that child reveals his inner serial killer personality and kills you, his brothers, his sisters and mother for trying to stop it.
Whatever you do, you cant stop it from being an asshole. Whatever you do he will try to take revenge on you for its own mistakes.
How could he not feel mercy for Hephestus when he shared a similar fate as him (imprisoned by Zeus and taken away from his loved ones), or spare the life of Poseidon's daughter when she was helpless like his family is beyond me.
I'm with Scott and nightshade on this one.
After GOW3, I'm pretty much fatigued out with Kratos as a character. It's kind of ironic because Kratos as a character is what hooked me in the first 2 GOW games. By the end of 3, I was wishing that he would suffer a horrible and painful death.
I guess HATE really does lead to the darkside.
After GOW3, I'm pretty much fatigued out with Kratos as a character. It's kind of ironic because Kratos as a character is what hooked me in the first 2 GOW games. By the end of 3, I was wishing that he would suffer a horrible and painful death.
I guess HATE really does lead to the darkside.
Billy Idol
Legend
Nesh said:
I agree with you Nesh. They should have probably included a choice for those overdone brutal scenes, I dont know?!?
But I just have the feeling that it is rather difficult for the devs to deal with the following problem: in each new GOW title, fans want more action, more epic scenes and battles. If you turn Kratos into a thinker who regrets, it is really difficult to write a story which justifies killing the rest of the titans and gods and everything in the way...I guess, at this point the devs or story writers are limited by the demand for more phantastic and epic action scenes in the games, which is a good thing for me. Changing Kratos character would likely result in a different game imo, which is at least a financial risk for the franchise...
Personally, I do not take games and its stories so serious like some of you guys, wanting to connect to a character, making me immune to most of the complaints some of you have (in general for orher games as well).
In case of GOW, I want best entertainment in form of never before seen action, and I just hope that the new GOW game delivers in this regard, as the other parts did for me!
Prophecy2k
Veteran
I think the point with Kratos, unlike most traditional story protagonists, is that Kratos simply isn't the Hero of the story in any of the GOW games. He's really the villain.
He's a vicious and malicious bastard. He always has been to some extent, but as the games stories progress, his hate and rage consumes him to the point where he becomes worse than all the Gods, their wickedness and every evil thing in the world and olympus combined that Kratos himself feels so hard done by.
He isn't really intended to be a likeable character, nor one the player can sympathise with. He feels no remorse, nor shame for the heineous acts of wanton violence he visits upon not just his foes but anyone that seems to be unfortunate enough to stand in his way.
There were many scenes in GOW III that were difficult for even me, as a full grown adult male, to watch. I couldn't in anyway connect with Kratos or his actions, but in some far out way its what makes GOW III so compelling to me, because of the fact that I actually didn't have any choice in his actions. I as the player I could retain a sense of clear conscience, whilst watching (and participating in - through my play) the butcher and the ignoble descent into a state of distilled, pure and hateful wickedness this character Kratos was undergoing. It's like watching a serial killer steal a train and go careering off the tracks into a highly populated city bock. Horrific and violent, condemnable yet still utterly facinating to watch.
I realise that the reason i loved GOWIII was the reason I love the US TV show Breaking Bad. In that it's the taking part in the journey and process of a character who is at first distinguishably human (in qualities and characteristics), who then gradually and irreversably transforms into the most deplorable and merciless monster even known.
He's a vicious and malicious bastard. He always has been to some extent, but as the games stories progress, his hate and rage consumes him to the point where he becomes worse than all the Gods, their wickedness and every evil thing in the world and olympus combined that Kratos himself feels so hard done by.
He isn't really intended to be a likeable character, nor one the player can sympathise with. He feels no remorse, nor shame for the heineous acts of wanton violence he visits upon not just his foes but anyone that seems to be unfortunate enough to stand in his way.
There were many scenes in GOW III that were difficult for even me, as a full grown adult male, to watch. I couldn't in anyway connect with Kratos or his actions, but in some far out way its what makes GOW III so compelling to me, because of the fact that I actually didn't have any choice in his actions. I as the player I could retain a sense of clear conscience, whilst watching (and participating in - through my play) the butcher and the ignoble descent into a state of distilled, pure and hateful wickedness this character Kratos was undergoing. It's like watching a serial killer steal a train and go careering off the tracks into a highly populated city bock. Horrific and violent, condemnable yet still utterly facinating to watch.
I realise that the reason i loved GOWIII was the reason I love the US TV show Breaking Bad. In that it's the taking part in the journey and process of a character who is at first distinguishably human (in qualities and characteristics), who then gradually and irreversably transforms into the most deplorable and merciless monster even known.
Sigfried1977
Legend
Walter White is a fascinating and three dimensional character, though.
As for Kratos: there was never a journey or a believable transformation to begin with. He just started acting like a total dick after he became the new god of war.
As for Kratos: there was never a journey or a believable transformation to begin with. He just started acting like a total dick after he became the new god of war.
Prophecy2k
Veteran
Which happened at the very end of the first game.
Prior to that you spent an entire game following his journey from emotionally wounded spartan champion, to his being betrayed by those who promised him respite on the grounds that he dealt with the current God of War Ares.
I think most would agree that they could sympathise with him a lot better in the first game.
Kratos' descent came after GOWI.
I beg to differ a lot, because I don't think we give justice talking only in those terms of GOW 3 gameplay (tough difficult = better gameplay to me isn't it the only perfect equation for this kind of game); I hope to be enough clear because english is not my own language & arguments are so complexes to be treated without a good dictionary; by the way, (I know sounds like repetitive) GOW 3 to find a delicate equilibrium in the weapons/abilities growing system (I don't know how define better, my apologies) , something is extremely hard to realize , crucial in game like this; even DMC or NG (at the best form) shows weapons or 'magic' almost useless or just choreographic for my taste & defect in congruengy more than a less. GOW seems to have found a perfect mixage in this: a flawless compound where any weapons, achievement, find a perfect 'flow', nothing appears casual or forced; everything close perfectly the circle'. How many times we can to say the same for a game? I can't differ only for Bayonetta, probably nothing is comparable to it or at the same level; the real evolution of the genre.
To be honest Bayonetta and DMC3/DMC4 are on the same level as far as combat complexity goes. What people want from hack and slash game is depth, the depth in Bayonetta and DMC comes from the free form combo and chaining/linking your weapons to create different combos and cancelling previous ones to make even more combos. The depth in Ninja Gaiden comes from the extremely large move set given to each weapon and the challenge put up by every single enemy.
When I look at God of War I don't see this depth, since the move set is limited and neither are the enemies anything more than sponge who take a lot of hits before dying. Regardless of anything games like Bayonetta/DMC/NG can be played in lower difficulty and you will still appreciate the complexity in combat but in GOW playing in lower difficulty you can basically finishing the whole game square square x combo and the game won't put any challenge. Infact even when playing on Titan I only used this move along with triangle, triangle, triangle and small jabs of square to chip away some health...nothing more.
Also you don't need to apologise so much for your English, as long as people understand why does it matter? Not everyone's a native speaker
When I look at God of War I don't see this depth, since the move set is limited and neither are the enemies anything more than sponge who take a lot of hits before dying. Regardless of anything games like Bayonetta/DMC/NG can be played in lower difficulty and you will still appreciate the complexity in combat but in GOW playing in lower difficulty you can basically finishing the whole game square square x combo and the game won't put any challenge. Infact even when playing on Titan I only used this move along with triangle, triangle, triangle and small jabs of square to chip away some health...nothing more.
Also you don't need to apologise so much for your English, as long as people understand why does it matter? Not everyone's a native speaker
While Kratos is a harsh-as-hell main character, the gods never really took much of a diplomatic approach either. In GOW I they helped him only as a means to overthrow Ares, and In GOW II Zeus tries to outright kill him without even discussing Kratos' actions as the God of War (Athena was accidentally by protecting Zeus).
In GOW III Gaia and the Titans betray him, every other God tries to taunt and kill him. Hercules was the only one Kratos actually tried to reason with, but Hercules still tries to kill him.
The woman Kratos sacrificed was Poseidon's willing-slave/lover, he didn't care about her because she was hostile towards him for killing Poseidon. Did she have to die? No, but she wasn't completely innocent either.
The only people that's actually innocent in all this is Daedalus and Icarus. Icarus was killed becuase he was insane and tried to kill Kratos by pulling him off a bridge to plummet to his death. Daedalus was tortured by Zeus and indirectly killed by Kratos because he completed the Labyrinth.
Oh and the guy hanging scaling a wall when Kratos *ahem* knocked him off.
Like I said, the gods didn't do much outside of trying to kill him. The only one that tried to persuade him from doing anything wrong was Athena.
It seemed pretty obvious that by the time Kratos reached a certain a point he realized how driven by revenge he was, or else he wouldn't have stabbed himself to free Pandora's hope to the world.
Billy Idol
Legend
nightshade said:To be honest Bayonetta and DMC3/DMC4 are on the same level as far as combat complexity goes. What people want from hack and slash game is depth, the depth in Bayonetta and DMC comes from the free form combo and chaining/linking your weapons to create different combos and cancelling previous ones to make even more combos. The depth in Ninja Gaiden comes from the extremely large move set given to each weapon and the challenge put up by every single enemy.
When I look at God of War I don't see this depth, since the move set is limited and neither are the enemies anything more than sponge who take a lot of hits before dying. Regardless of anything games like Bayonetta/DMC/NG can be played in lower difficulty and you will still appreciate the complexity in combat but in GOW playing in lower difficulty you can basically finishing the whole game square square x combo and the game won't put any challenge. Infact even when playing on Titan I only used this move along with triangle, triangle, triangle and small jabs of square to chip away some health...nothing more.
Also you don't need to apologise so much for your English, as long as people understand why does it matter? Not everyone's a native speaker
Hm, I feel different: what makes GOW combat excel over the competition is 'impact' imo.
Every blow, every combo has a brutal (visual) impact on your poor enemy. Imo, no other games you mention give me this feeling while playing. Thus for me, gameplay and combat in GOW is way above the other games.
I guess you mean square square triangle combo, as x is jumping. If desired, DMC and NG can be completed with limited combos as well...this is really not unique to GOW! In NG, just do the wall jump move over and over again. I cannot talk for Bayonetta, because due to the art in this game I could not even finish the demo, although I tried playing with closed eyes several minutes
Furthermore, I am not happy about comparing NG to an other game, as this game has a fundamentally broken camera system. Difficulty in NG often comes solely due to broken camera and enemies not in your view imo. Another aspect highly apreciated in GOW, which has nearly perfect camera work.
Furthermore, there are so many cool combos in GOW3 that you can pull off if you are able to, e.g.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BoHu8FTyxk
See how you can combine different weapons, combos, magic, wrestle moves (there is even a flying back breacker!!) and abilities like the dash, rage mode and even the finishing moves in one combo? So this is not exclusive to the games you mention...
PS: I love that vid
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NG doesn't has a broken camera, yes it has it's problems from being a completely user controlled camera but if you know what you are doing then camera is last of the issues with NG games. As for visual feedback, I am on a completely opposite stance for that, it's good to see that your blows feel like they hit, but you do not see any impact or whatsoever on your enemy, this is the biggest complain I have with the series in particular. For eg. the Cerberus fight in GOW3, I just kept hitting it without knowing how much health it has, it's like hitting it again and again and then suddenly you see a circle button prompt appear and this is repeated 3 times throughout the fight without you actually knowing how much damage you are doing. And this is the same story with every encounter in the game, you'd feel like you made a solid blow but then the enemy would just get up and it's same as before. And while it's true that other games can be finished by using a limited number of move set regularly as well, you didn't get my point of where I said that I did so while playing GOW3 on titan. In other games you can't stick to 2 moveset and expect to finish it in harder difficulties.
I also believe that the skill level required to pull off such combos is usually higher in the other games, for eg. this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjsuGB3S92Q
I also believe that the skill level required to pull off such combos is usually higher in the other games, for eg. this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjsuGB3S92Q
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Kameradschaft
Regular
Have you played Ninja Gaiden 2 on 360? the "impact" in this game is amazing, the flow and rhythm of combat is so smooth and so brutal at the same time and the beautiful gore helps a lot too - best "combat feel" in an action game ever IMO just for the Obliteration Techniques alone...the animations of Ryu and the camera work look freakin' amazing and feel so satisfying when you play.
Now about GoW I've played and enjoyed all the console games plus Chains of Olympus on the PSP, they are fun games with great persentation but they are not even comparable to games like DMC1/3, Bayonetta & Ninja Gaiden 1/2 - the combat system is too lackluster to even compare it to the top action games from Japan..I consider myself a decent player in the action genre and I've completed the harder difficulties in all the major action games from Japan and the games almost always get better as you bump the difficulty up, GoW on the other side in the harder difficulties feels like a chore, as nightshade already said enemies with a lot of HP and repetitive lengthy battles with a limited moveset which becomes even more limited since you go for the moves that deal the most damage is not fun IMO.
Still interested in Ascension just for the tech alone, though it would be welcome to lock the frame-rate this time around and make it 30fps if they can't get 60fps, the variable frame-rate in GoW3 was really annoying IMO.
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