General Next Generation Rumors and Discussions [Post GDC 2020]

[Nisaaru]

Because it is not the priority and they don't do VR.

Sony is in VR and they need it and it is a priority for exclusives out of VR and it is possible to market it now because everyone has a headphone and can access youtube. And audio engineers need to fight a lot to make the sound a priority on Sony side. They talked more of audio than CPU and GPU...

Use an headphone you will understand better.

They can use 3d audio in trailers or conference.

I actually use a Beyerdynamic Amiron, a real headphone, so I personally appreciate great audio.

But the reality is that most players out there simply don't have great audio equipment as they use their TV speaker system, some might have some "fashion" soundbar. I surely don't qualify the usual over priced gamer headset produced by some marketing label without any history in headphone design as...good...

To me VR for consoles is a niche market.

 

[chris1515]

I actually use a Beyerdynamic Amiron, a real headphone, so I personally appreciate great audio.

But the reality is that most players out there simply don't have great audio equipment as they use their TV speaker system, some might have some "fashion" soundbar. I surely don't qualify the usual over priced gamer headset produced by some marketing label without any history in headphone design as...good...

To me VR for consoles is a niche market.

All people have a headphone. The best use case is headphones. Same they have an idea using survey how many people watch game trailers with a headphone(on youtube 3d audio works...) because they need to market it.

On PS4, you needed the official headphone for 3d audio. On PS5, it works on all headphones from the cheapest one to the best one. No certification is needed.

 

[Nisaaru]

Nope to both affirmation i would tend to say. If their audio solutions was able to do more than Sony's one they would have added a one line like "fixed frequence", as they had leak from sony presentation.
And both talked about maximum throughput of their ssd solution: 5Gb/s for MS, 22Gb/s for Sony.
The different marketing strategies (except obviosuly the focus on power which is the main one) comes from trying to minimise bandwith advantage with the "mysterious" BCpack compression format, while sony actually talked about realistic throughput of 8/9Gb/s.

Sony's numbers seem to be their raw max and their theoretical compressed max.

MS's numbers are more complicated and we have to make a lot assumptions here.

2.4GB/s appears to be the guaranteed minimum performance. 4.8GB/s is just the usual 2x compressed number.
We don't know if the XSX has a PCIe 3.0 or 4.0 NVME connection and it might be limited by their TDP/temperature budget. Available SSDs with pcie 3.0 are faster than 2.4GB/s.

So the 2.4 number might just be the speed MS wants game developer to design their games for because MS thinks it's good enough in their SW/HW design or because it's practical with xCloud in mind. On xCloud several 720p instances would share the same SSD bandwidth.

So in reality we don't know yet if MS throttles their SSD for consoles at 2.4GB or if they allow the max. speed which might change depending on what kind of NVME they use or allow externally (over time).

 

[chris1515]

Sony's numbers seem to be their raw max and their theoretical compressed max.

MS's numbers are more complicated and we have to make a lot assumptions here.

2.4GB/s appears to be the guaranteed minimum performance. 4.8GB/s is just the usual 2x compressed number.
We don't know if the XSX has a PCIe 3.0 or 4.0 NVME connection and it might be limited by their TDP/temperature budget. Available SSDs with pcie 3.0 are faster than 2.4GB/s.

So the 2.4 number might just be the speed MS wants game developer to design their games for because MS thinks it's good enough in their SW/HW design or because it's practical with xCloud in mind. On xCloud several 720p instances would share the same SSD bandwidth.

So in reality we don't know yet if MS throttles their SSD for consoles at 2.4GB or if they allow the max. speed which might change depending on what kind of NVME they use or allow externally (over time).

If the decompressor is outside the SOC, they have a PCIE4 because it means they can send more than 4 GB/s data and it would go with the rumor of a LinkedIn employee saying Xbox Series X use a custom Phison E-019 controller. Other data fit well with this controller one co processor.

 

[Barrabas]

On PS4, you needed the official headphone for 3d audio.

That is not correct. Some months ago I bought the Steelseries Arctis Pro Wireless replacing my Turtle Beach Elite 800. Both do 3D audio on PS4 Pro. And there are others. Will recommend the Steelseries to anyone interested. I am very picky about sound and they are really good. In Battlefield I can clearly hear people coming behind me or walking behind a wall. So many times they have tried ry to rush me from behind with a knife or club and I turn around and boom! Funny moments. I am also looking forward to test my stereo Sony MDR-Z7 on PS5's new 3D Audio.

 

[chris1515]

That is not correct. Some months ago I bought the Steelseries Arctis Pro Wireless replacing my Turtle Beach Elite 800. Both do 3D audio on PS4 Pro. And there are others. Will recommend the Steelseries to anyone interested. I am very picky about sound and they are really good. In Battlefield I can clearly hear people coming behind me or walking behind a wall. So many times they have tried ry to rush me from behind with a knife or club and I turn around and boom! Funny moments. I am also looking forward to test my stereo Sony MDR-Z7 on PS5's new 3D Audio.

But it was not supported by all headphone if I remember well. Here you can have a 10 dollars headphone it will be ok... Out of someone not having headphone at all and I doubt it is possible with mobile phone, there is no entry barrier.

All the games on PS4 support Enhanced 7.1 virtual surround sound with compatible headphones (Gold, Platinum). Sony have officially stated 3D sound even over stereo speakers will be a huge thing next gen. Not all of the games listed support 3d audio. ... The 3d audio is incredible.

 

[PSman1700]

Sounds very nice and all if consoles could actually deliver this 3d htrf on tv speakers and 10 dollar headsets. While great, it wont be so good for the hifi market.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It won't impact the hifi market at all. Movies and music will still operate the same way.

 

[Barrabas]

Here you can have a 10 dollars headphone it will be ok..

A 10 dollar headphone will not be ok for me, lol. It's of course fine that many more can eventually enjoy 3D game audio with "normal" headphones, but it will not magically improve sound from cheap/bad sounding headphones. By the way the Steelseries is also just a Stereo headset (two speakers) where the 3D audio is being processed in the base connected to the PS4 optical output. Dual wireless 2.4G channels is transmitting to the headset.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

$10 headphones will give the same positional quality as $100+ headphones, but not the same comfort or audio quality. More expensive headphones will provide better realism and immersion from better sound reproduction.

 

[Barrabas]

$10 headphones will give the same positional quality as $100+ headphones.

I guess speaker element size will have an impact? I feel smaller elements have a "narrower" sound and maybe will loose positional accuracy?. I don't know. I have some to test from 70mm and downwards, also some in ears. Will be interesting.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Broadly speaking, smaller drivers have lower bass response and vice versa, due to the natural resonance frequencies. But modern tech can get really good bass response into tiny in-ear pieces. I think rare-earth magnets help as it seems to be coincidental with their development. That's why audio 'speakers' have different sized speaker cones though, to cover the broader sound spectrum, with little tweeters for the high frequencies and big woofers for the bass sounds.

 

[Barrabas]

Broadly speaking, smaller drivers have lower bass response and vice versa, due to the natural resonance frequencies. But modern tech can get really good bass response into tiny in-ear pieces. I think rare-earth magnets help as it seems to be coincidental with their development. That's why audio 'speakers' have different sized speaker cones though, to cover the broader sound spectrum, with little tweeters for the high frequencies and big woofers for the bass sounds.

I am talking about single full tone elements in headphones and wider and narrower sound field regardless off bass, mid and treble response

 

[chris1515]

A 10 dollar headphone will not be ok for me, lol. It's of course fine that many more can eventually enjoy 3D game audio with "normal" headphones, but it will not magically improve sound from cheap/bad sounding headphones. By the way the Steelseries is also just a Stereo headset (two speakers) where the 3D audio is being processed in the base connected to the PS4 optical output. Dual wireless 2.4G channels is transmitting to the headset.

I never said it will be the same sound quality... I just said the 3d audio will work for it.

 

[wco81]

With a likely global depression from Covid-19, launch volumes are going to be constrained.

Millions of people who might have been potential buyers this year and next year are not going to be buying $400-500 consoles.

Or they won’t be able to because of reduced incomes or lost jobs.


Not to mention, games development must be impacted? Coding and art assets may be possibly done remotely but not testing or things like voice acting — TV and film production is shut down.


Tough year to launch new consoles, though some of us staying at home could use them.

 

[AlphaWolf]

With a likely global depression from Covid-19, launch volumes are going to be constrained.

Millions of people who might have been potential buyers this year and next year are not going to be buying $400-500 consoles.

Or they won’t be able to because of reduced incomes or lost jobs.


Not to mention, games development must be impacted? Coding and art assets may be possibly done remotely but not testing or things like voice acting — TV and film production is shut down.


Tough year to launch new consoles, though some of us staying at home could use them.

Many voice actors already/have always work/ed from home. There should be little problem with that part of development.

 

[AlNom]

Scoring music may be difficult where orchestras are intended.

 

[BRiT]

Not to mention, games development must be impacted? Coding and art assets may be possibly done remotely but not testing or things like voice acting — TV and film production is shut down.

The most difficult part is likely the syncing of Art Assets from central repositories to the local workstation. The pathetic upstream bandwidth that all US Internet Providers except those with Fiber connections (less than 1% or so?). The rest of the work is more suitable for remote sites.

Sound effects may be limited to where they need professional sound studio equipment to get everything exactly right, but they could possibly juggle time in the studio with few others required.

 

[Barrabas]

Predicting the PS5 and Xbox Series X Launch Games

https://lordsofgaming.net/2020/04/predicting-the-ps5-and-xbox-series-x-launch-games/

 

[BRiT]

Predicting the PS5 and Xbox Series X Launch Games

https://lordsofgaming.net/2020/04/predicting-the-ps5-and-xbox-series-x-launch-games/

I don't know about that, seems rather questionable especially this statement here: In terms of new games, the only thing I think would be a lock for launch would be NBA 2K21.