General Next Generation Rumors and Discussions [Post GDC 2020]

[iroboto]

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/fo3q2h

This is imo the next gen use case need for
a) lots of CPU
b) lots of SSD

c) hell just lots of everything.
Most games you're not going to bring these high resolution textures up everywhere, plus things are going fast. 3P over the shoulder games you can't see nothing from that distance except for cutscenes.

But as you can see, in this game, where you can manipulate everything, there could be a real desire to pick things up and bring them to your face. You are going to be up close and personal with everything but also feel like you need to see high resolution everything because those graphics are immersion.

If you understand where I'm going with this, this is a good example of why we would need both: VR.

VR done right.

I hope with Valve showing people how to do VR right, the VR community explodes. Sony's VR program may be saved here. They certainly haven't discussed it during the reveal sadly.

 

[manux]

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/fo3q2h

This is imo the next gen use case need for
a) lots of CPU
b) lots of SSD

c) hell just lots of everything.
Most games you're not going to bring these high resolution textures up everywhere, plus things are going fast. 3P over the shoulder games you can't see nothing from that distance except for cutscenes.

But as you can see, in this game, where you can manipulate everything, there could be a real desire to pick things up and bring them to your face. You are going to be up close and personal with everything but also feel like you need to see high resolution everything because those graphics are immersion.

If you understand where I'm going with this, this is a good example of why we would need both: VR.

VR done right.

I hope with Valve showing people how to do VR right, the VR community explodes. Sony's VR program may be saved here. They certainly haven't discussed it during the reveal sadly.

There is some really insane stuff in alyx. Started playing it yesterday and loving it. Found a huge can of paint in roof. Took it, threw it down to yard and it shattered on a bench that got neatly covered in paint splash. It's full of unnecessary details that make the world that much more immersive. It invites player to really play and explore instead of rushing through the experience.

 

[N00b]

Wasn't the INT8 and INt4 stuff from SeriesX targetting this? But wouldn't all ML be done offline and then you apply their findings at runtime?

Yes, but inference (i.e. applying a trained model) benefits from using INT8 and INT4. Inference is usually a time critical operation.

Here is an example from nVidia on using INT4 for inference: https://devblogs.nvidia.com/int4-for-ai-inference/

 

[Jay]

The xsx apu is also going to be used in azure and xcloud.
What precisely the work load will be in azure no idea, but could be used for ML training.

It having those precisions may just be a positive side effect for the console.

 

[Tabris]

Sony is hiring media coordinators for PS5 in Japan, start working from June.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Sony is hiring media coordinators for PS5 in Japan, start working from June.

Job 1: Undo all the media co-ordinating we did in March.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Sony is hiring media coordinators for PS5 in Japan, start working from June home.

Fixed that for you.

 

[PSman1700]

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/fo3q2h

This is imo the next gen use case need for
a) lots of CPU
b) lots of SSD

c) hell just lots of everything.
Most games you're not going to bring these high resolution textures up everywhere, plus things are going fast. 3P over the shoulder games you can't see nothing from that distance except for cutscenes.

But as you can see, in this game, where you can manipulate everything, there could be a real desire to pick things up and bring them to your face. You are going to be up close and personal with everything but also feel like you need to see high resolution everything because those graphics are immersion.

If you understand where I'm going with this, this is a good example of why we would need both: VR.

VR done right.

I hope with Valve showing people how to do VR right, the VR community explodes. Sony's VR program may be saved here. They certainly haven't discussed it during the reveal sadly.

True next gen VR game

 

[Proelite]

Conspiracy Theory:

Shaun Layden wanted a cheaper 399 ps5 for mass market appeal. Internally factions within Sony did not like that and wanted a more high end console. When Xbox details started emerging Sony went into panic mode and also blamed Shaun and fired him 1.5years before launching. What sony initially had was a 36CU RDNA 1 system aimed at an early launch of feb 2020, early leaks reveal this. They switched over to RDNA 2 36CUs because of RT and this has caused some problems for them, namely BC. It's too late to reengineer the SoC so now they have to make due with what they have, up the clocks, faster SSD, anything to rival the new Xbox.

Hehe real life version is worse than your conspiracy theory.

They were planning Jaguars, Rdna1, +SSD for 2019 back in 2017.

 

[Xbat]

It's not like because of months sat indoors, gamers are going to forget what a PlayStation is and what their hobby is without constant reminders.

Could be the opposite. We have entered a 22 day lockdown in my country and I have people that have showed no interest in games asking me what's a good price for a PS4 and what games to get.
People that have showed no interest in games so much so I thought they were joking.

Hehe real life version is worse than your conspiracy theory.

They were planning Jaguars, Rdna1, +SSD for 2019 back in 2017.

I don't believe this at all. So Ghosts of Tsushima and last of us 2 were going to come out after the PS5? I just don't see how that would ever of been the though process.

 

[disco_]

Could be the opposite. We have entered a 22 day lockdown in my country and I have people that have showed no interest in games asking me what's a good price for a PS4 and what games to get.
People that have showed no interest in games so much so I thought they were joking.




I don't believe this at all. So Ghosts of Tsushima and last of us 2 were going to come out after the PS5? I just don't see how that would ever of been the though process.

Jaguars were planned for early dev kits IIRC. This is all according to DF if I'm not mistaken. They won't tell you who gave them that info.
But yeah, jaguars would be used in a console that released 2 years after zen...

 

[Rangers]

Jaguars were planned for early dev kits IIRC. This is all according to DF if I'm not mistaken. They won't tell you who gave them that info.
But yeah, jaguars would be used in a console that released 2 years after zen...

If you I dont know, 8 Jag cores at 3ghz or whatever suitable bump and a 15TF GPU, and you put that in a poll against Zen 2 and 10.3 TF PS5 or 12TF Series X, I bet the 15 TF would win and it wouldn't be close. Just throwing it out there.

Maybe 16 Jag cores could also be done in such a framework, making it even more palatable.

 

[AlphaWolf]

If you I dont know, 8 Jag cores at 3ghz or whatever suitable bump and a 15TF GPU, and you put that in a poll against Zen 2 and 10.3 TF PS5 or 12TF Series X, I bet the 15 TF would win and it wouldn't be close. Just throwing it out there.

Maybe 16 Jag cores could also be done in such a framework, making it even more palatable.

A poll of who? Forum/Fans or developers?

 

[PSman1700]

If you I dont know, 8 Jag cores at 3ghz or whatever suitable bump and a 15TF GPU, and you put that in a poll against Zen 2 and 10.3 TF PS5 or 12TF Series X, I bet the 15 TF would win and it wouldn't be close. Just throwing it out there.

Maybe 16 Jag cores could also be done in such a framework, making it even more palatable.

No way that anything jaguar cores related would win against anything else 'sane' in hardware. No matter how many cores and how high the clocks. Even the average joe should be aware how weak those where lol.
The hardware is set in stone now, it doesn't matter what they planned before.

 

[turkey]

No way that anything jaguar cores related would win against anything else 'sane' in hardware. No matter how many cores and how high the clocks. Even the average joe should be aware how weak those where lol.
The hardware is set in stone now, it doesn't matter what they planned before.

We heard about plenty of cpu saving tech in the chip, offload that here, that there.
If they have offloaded even more than last gen then Jaguar cpus might have been viable.

The Zen 2 offering is roughly 4x cpu, if you went jaguar 16 cores and the 3ghz then with a little IPC improvement that's pretty close to the 4x we have now.

 

[dobwal]

Conspiracy Theory:

Shaun Layden wanted a cheaper 399 ps5 for mass market appeal. Internally factions within Sony did not like that and wanted a more high end console. When Xbox details started emerging Sony went into panic mode and also blamed Shaun and fired him 1.5years before launching. What sony initially had was a 36CU RDNA 1 system aimed at an early launch of feb 2020, early leaks reveal this. They switched over to RDNA 2 36CUs because of RT and this has caused some problems for them, namely BC. It's too late to reengineer the SoC so now they have to make due with what they have, up the clocks, faster SSD, anything to rival the new Xbox.

My Conspiracy Theory

Sony observed MS's efforts with BC and realized like MS that BC with a Netflix-like service had huge potential as an additional revenue stream and could act as a mechanism for user retention.

Sony and AMD discovered early on that BC would limit the CU count to 36. Sony accommodated by designing a more robust cooling solution to handle higher frequency. Wanted a notable metric that they could use to compete on. Chose the SSD because a high performance part would offer tangible benefits that even casual gamers could readily experience.

 

[PSman1700]

Sony and AMD discovered early on that BC would limit the CU count to 36. Sony accommodated by designing a more robust cooling solution to handle higher frequency. Wanted a notable metric that they could use to compete on. Chose the SSD because a high performance part would offer tangible benefits that even casual gamers could readily experience.

True, in the end, XSX has a faster CPU, more powerfull GPU (no var clocks on them either), higher bandwith, a solid BC-plan (higher settings, HDR, resolutions), and a SSD nvme solution that casual gamers are going to notice as a tangible difference even at the lower read speeds. Aside from that, implementations like bcpack/decompression etc could be rather competitive in raw speed anyway.
Being stuck to 36CU wasn't really needed i think, high clocks where attained on xsx too (1800+mhz gpu), which seems a sweet spot. You end up with a less costly cooling system, and put the resources in hardware instead.

 

[Nesh]

True, in the end, XSX has a faster CPU, more powerfull GPU (no var clocks on them either), higher bandwith, a solid BC-plan (higher settings, HDR, resolutions), and a SSD nvme solution that casual gamers are going to notice as a tangible difference even at the lower read speeds. Aside from that, implementations like bcpack/decompression etc could be rather competitive in raw speed anyway.
Being stuck to 36CU wasn't really needed i think, high clocks where attained on xsx too (1800+mhz gpu), which seems a sweet spot. You end up with a less costly cooling system, and put the resources in hardware instead.

Surely if XSX managed BC with higher CU count, I wonder why Sony couldnt follow a similar route.
I wonder what the aim was or if they found some kind of other problems and decided for that specification

 

[iroboto]

Surely if XSX managed BC with higher CU count, I wonder why Sony couldnt follow a similar route.
I wonder what the aim was or if they found some kind of other problems and decided for that specification

May come down to the API itself. MS APIs stand a level higher, as a result, probably less performance. But the trade off is that it's completely BC compatible like we see on the PC space.

 

[PSman1700]

probably less performance.

Seeing how Gears 5 was running at higher then PC specs, HDR, and the FPS/resolution, done in two weeks, performance shouldnt be a problem for BC games. Gears 5 is one of the best looking current gen games.