Gears of War 4 [XO, XPA]

[Rangers]

Personal taste. I really like the grenade system in gears. You have your choice of a quick but potentially inaccurate toss or a riskier but well aimed toss.

I think it's objectively inferior.

I hate to bring up destiny all the time but...yeah (and I thought this well before Destiny). I like games where grenades are helpful, not a pain. Destiny has grenades too, but they're a perfect HELP in that game, which flow naturally, not cumbersome.

That's deliberate to make it an actual choice when you want to sprint, rather than sprinting just being the normal movement speed that all users use. Or to use a rather arbitrary sprint stamina bar. The regular movement is still faster than regular walking. Gears while mostly a fantastical spectacle type of cover shooter still tries to ground certain things in reality to make combat feel more weighty with consequences to free movement versus taking cover. Movement is one of those things, hence limiting default movement speed to something more realistic than the vast majority of shooters (like Destiny which went for highly unrealistic movement, which is needed for what is basically a slower paced run and gun shooter).

Well again, Destiny, or most any other game, the default speed is a lot faster. Gears feels like walking in mud. On Destiny if I want to sprint, I simply push that direction and click in the thumbstick. It's just so much intuitive and better.

15 minutes? It's quite obviously much of that is the tutorial for the game. Almost all modern games these days uses the first level or two or three as a tutorial to gradually teach the player the mechanics of the game rather than using a printed manual. Just be glad the tutorial doesn't comprise the first 2 hours of the game like some recent Final Fantasy games.

I guess. But it's the heavy handedness of it. Since then it's also heavy handedly introduced me to the new grab em from the back and pull em over a barrier move, and some execution thing. The thing is, I dont want to do these. I dont want these. LEAVE. ME. ALONE. It's taking stuff on for the sake of having something new because we cant make a game without new stuff. (which again, I thought was a huge problem in Gears 2). That's fine, but if it doesn't flow naturally, it just doesn't.

The Gears style of gameplay is either a love it or hate it thing. Some people just don't like it no matter what.

I used to like it, but I'm starting to think it's just archaic. It takes a lot of getting used to versus other modern games. I was thinking, Gears came out at a time when it was kind of the only next gen thing on 360. That's why a whole generation played that multiplayer back then. In a sense it was the only game in town. In 2016 it's not.

If this game sells poorly, like Judgement, maybe it's a systemic problem with the series. And maybe that's the gameplay. Anyways, since you haven't played it yet, it'll be more interesting when you have. Although I have a feeling you've set yourself to like it no matter what.

I love Gears in my head though...so, I dunno. It's Gears and Halo the twin biggies for me. Yet ironically both have been letdowns lately (but I'm not writing off Gears 4 yet, I'm only maybe an hour in). I wonder if they could update the gamepay and controls to be more in line with the times (COD/Destiny/Halo/maybe Uncharted?) while keeping the core of Gears.


I'm being negative but I still like the game so far. But, it's a bit...tedious. Looks stupendous though. It makes Destiny look last gen.

At least so far I feel like continuing to play now and again, probably a lot because of the visuals, which Halo 5 failed at.

This game definitely is a system pusher right up there with the stuff people gush about on PS4...the storm early on...wow.

 

[iroboto]

I have the opposite feel on that one. MS has managed to complete their game trinity with Gears, Halo, Forza. All these games at least IMO have been objectively better, much better, than their previous attempts.

The move to 60fps may actually be the reason, I could be wrong, but in the MP category these newer titles are miles ahead over their past attempts.

Gears isn't a twitch fest. It's a slower paced game that is heavily about decision making. Weapon switching is purposefully slow. Grenade tossing is slow otherwise it would be too powerful. Running only works in one direction.

The game is a bit like chess. Players navigate cover, from hot spot to hot spot as fast as they can physically manage without getting killed. Each cover spot represents a square. You can run and change the style of traversing, but it locks you into a single direction. Much like a Rook, Queen, or Bishop would.

It is nothing like modern FPS games and would be wrong to compare it to them in such a way.

 

[Rangers]

I have the opposite feel on that one. MS has managed to complete their game trinity with Gears, Halo, Forza. All these games at least IMO have been objectively better, much better, than their previous attempts.

The move to 60fps may actually be the reason, I could be wrong, but in the MP category these newer titles are miles ahead over their past attempts.

Gears isn't a twitch fest. It's a slower paced game that is heavily about decision making. Weapon switching is purposefully slow. Grenade tossing is slow otherwise it would be too powerful. Running only works in one direction.

The game is a bit like chess. Players navigate cover, from hot spot to hot spot as fast as they can physically manage without getting killed. Each cover spot represents a square. You can run and change the style of traversing, but it locks you into a single direction. Much like a Rook, Queen, or Bishop would.

It is nothing like modern FPS games and would be wrong to compare it to them in such a way.

Maybe in advanced PVP or something. In campaign hah, who are you kidding. You literally cant die. I halfheartedly stand behind some wall when my health kind of seems critical (again even this health system seems very coarse compared to Destiny's fine grained health bar), or just stand and blast.

Anyways I am sure there is at least as much skill, as far as I can see more, in something like Destiny PVP, where horizontal and vertical mobility is as big a part as gunplay. That's why some crucible players swear by Bones of Eao, that simply give you an extra jump and nothing more. It's all about closing the gap for them.

I dont want to sit there and say the game should be like Destiny. If all games were alike that would be boring, and I've already played more than enough Destiny. OTOH, I cant help but see the differences.

But again, I'm expecting/hoping my view to turn more positive! It does have that Gears gamey dialogue certain charm, seems less forced than Gears 2/3, and so far they havent pushed 30 characters on us. I like the Mexican uncle guy.

Grenade tossing is slow otherwise it would be too powerful

I dont even know what that means. "we made this crap so it wouldn't be strong"?. I dont see what you're saying, but say it was true, then just make grenades deal less damage or something, not be frustrating to throw.

 

[iroboto]

Maybe in advanced PVP or something. In campaign hah, who are you kidding. You literally cant die.

Oh.
In horde mode you will die. For sure. You can play on normal and be overwhelmed and killed. Game is not easy.

You can die in campaign. Up the game to hardcore or nightmare and you'll probably die here and there.

It says specifically if you are new to gears play normal mode. If you have been playing the whole series start at hardcore.

 

[Rangers]

Hmm I didn't read that. I typically play games on normal difficulty so that's what I picked here. I dont want too much challenge in my campaigns (Nor them to be pushovers). Like I said in 2006 I would go back and beat Gears even on insane (there were some horrendously badly designed difficulty choke points in Gears 2 insane mode! another reason it's my most disliked in the series). But in 2016, not gonna happen.

I wouldn't mind not being revived every single time I die so far. A death here and there might make it more interesting. Maybe it changes later (I assume so!), but so far it seems the game is really saying "you will never use a checkpoint, you are going to play from beginning to end". So it's taking that shepherded bubble of fun concept even further.

 

[Arnold Beckenbauer]

I died twice. It is possible.

 

[Rangers]

I died twice. It is possible.

I'm only an hour in. I'm assuming at least on some boss fights it is (on normal).

It seems like all your AI teammates would have to die, and also yourself. Otherwise they will revive you.

 

[iroboto]

I'm only an hour in. I'm assuming at least on some boss fights it is (on normal).

It seems like all your AI teammates would have to die, and also yourself. Otherwise they will revive you.

Nah in hardcore. They curb stomp you if you go down and you are far from your team mates.

I've died many times making mistakes of travelling out too far.

 

[iroboto]

Good overall break down of gears PVP.

 

[BadTB25]

I've died a 7-10 times on hardcore. The settings even say if you not new to Gears that hardcore is the way to go.

Regarding the gameplay, I'm glad that it's not Destiny/Halo/COD. It's TPS so that's understandable and as iroboto says the grenade being more strategical is intentional given how powerful it is compared to games like Halo. The nades are also a lot more scarce and I feel are there for getting rid of the Swarm holes/tougher mini-bosses.

I'm about halfway thru chapter 3 and it'll get tougher---can't elaborate more without introducing a spoiler or two.

 

[AlNom]

Still in Act 1. I think Chapter 4.

Spoiler

Why.

I'm about halfway thru chapter 3 and it'll get tougher---can't elaborate more without introducing a spoiler or two.

The robots get heavy metal?

 

[BadTB25]

Still in Act 1. I think Chapter 4.

Spoiler

View attachment 1645

Why.




The robots get heavy metal?

No....lol. Or heck, maybe they do since I'm only about halfway through the game.

Just that the game gets harder on hardcore and you can expect to die more often than in the previous acts. I guess it wouldn't be a spoiler to say tougher enemies are introduced.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I think it's objectively inferior.

I hate to bring up destiny all the time but...yeah (and I thought this well before Destiny). I like games where grenades are helpful, not a pain. Destiny has grenades too, but they're a perfect HELP in that game, which flow naturally, not cumbersome.

...

Well again, Destiny, or most any other game, the default speed is a lot faster. Gears feels like walking in mud. On Destiny if I want to sprint, I simply push that direction and click in the thumbstick. It's just so much intuitive and better.

The slow pacing of movement and combat are deliberate choices. As I mentioned before, while the setting, story, and weapons are all fantastical, the combat was geared (sorry for the pun) to lean more towards realism. As such movement is closer to normal human movement speed. Grenades are more powerful than the vast majority of games (including Destiny). Using them is a conscious choice as it would be in real combat. Do I have time to drop my gun and use a grenade? Do I have time to aim my grenade? Is there so much incoming fire that I have to just toss it in the general direction and pray it hits what I want it to hit? Cover is a requirement, as in real combat. While sprinting you can't shoot, again like in real combat. Etc., etc. Of course, not everything is completely realistic otherwise you could make it in-fun. Carry hundreds of rounds of ammo is certainly unrealistic. On the other hand being limited to 4 grenades is more realistic. Chainsawing someone in the middle of combat isn't realistic, but having to rev up your chainsaw and being vulnerable while doing it is more realistic.

Destiny's combat at its heart is simple run and gun shooter like Halo and COD. A slow paced run and gun shooter, again like Halo and COD. Compared to something like Warframe, Unreal Tournament, Quake, etc. moving in Destiny feels like walking in mud. It's all relative.

None of that means that a more realistic cover based shooter is better than a run and gun shooter. Or that faster run and gun shooters are better than slower run and gun shooters. But they are all design choices and players either like them or they don't.

It's cool that you don't gel with the combat in Gears. Everyone has their preferences. Just trying to explain why it is the way it is and why quite a lot of people really like it. And also why quite a lot of people really don't like it. Just like quite a lot of people really like Destiny, and why quite a lot of people hate Destiny.

Regards,
SB

 

[milk]

While I understand Gears deliberate use of slow and weighty mechanics, I did feel them to be a little behind their times in Gears 3. Didnt't play 4 yet but I'm curious.
When the first came out, I "got it". the cobtrols and combat pacing and style felt great. That, in a time when the best TPS had been Resident Evil 4.
10 years later, both feel like last-last gen games control-wise. And Gears 3 improved little over most of it.
Combat can be slow, meticulous, deliberate and weighty without being clunky. Although clunky controlls is a sin present in many games I like (AC series, GTA, Batman arkham) It is specially bothersome in Gears (although it pains me in all other mentioned titles...

 

[NRP]

Kind of weird hearing Rangers make the Game play > Graphics argument.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

While I understand Gears deliberate use of slow and weighty mechanics, I did feel them to be a little behind their times in Gears 3. Didnt't play 4 yet but I'm curious.
When the first came out, I "got it". the cobtrols and combat pacing and style felt great. That, in a time when the best TPS had been Resident Evil 4.
10 years later, both feel like last-last gen games control-wise. And Gears 3 improved little over most of it.
Combat can be slow, meticulous, deliberate and weighty without being clunky. Although clunky controlls is a sin present in many games I like (AC series, GTA, Batman arkham) It is specially bothersome in Gears (although it pains me in all other mentioned titles...

The combat feels really good to me. My only complaint is that sprinting and getting into/out-of cover uses the same button. It's a bit clunky still and takes getting use to. On PC there's an option to bind them to separate buttons. Unfortunately, another problem arises where it becomes difficult to smoothly transition from sprinting to being in cover. What ends up happening is you sprint up to cover and then stand there for a moment while you come out of the sprint animation before you can go into cover versus single button where you sprint directly into being in cover.

Otherwise, the combat generally feels really good to me. Well once I got out of some of my run and gun FPS habits.

Regards,
SB

 

[AlNom]

@Scott_Arm says hi, and that kids these days are a bunch of smartasses. Also, he likes the combat.

Oh, and he's gonna stuff a frag down @NRP's emergence hole after he completes the story hand solo.

 

[Rangers]

and why quite a lot of people hate Destiny.

Actually people knock Destiny for everything else, almost everybody seems to think the gameplay is sublime.

You know, The Division is TPS cover based like Gears, and that gameplay is IMO why it flopped, not any of it's RPG systems.

But, I like Gears. But, there's no excuse for the grenades. Really none.

Perhaps they could speed up the default movement, slicken up some of the combat, revamp the grenades system...while keeping the Gears basics intact, I dont know.

 

[Nesh]

I think it's objectively inferior.

I hate to bring up destiny all the time but...yeah (and I thought this well before Destiny). I like games where grenades are helpful, not a pain. Destiny has grenades too, but they're a perfect HELP in that game, which flow naturally, not cumbersome.




Well again, Destiny, or most any other game, the default speed is a lot faster. Gears feels like walking in mud. On Destiny if I want to sprint, I simply push that direction and click in the thumbstick. It's just so much intuitive and better.



I guess. But it's the heavy handedness of it. Since then it's also heavy handedly introduced me to the new grab em from the back and pull em over a barrier move, and some execution thing. The thing is, I dont want to do these. I dont want these. LEAVE. ME. ALONE. It's taking stuff on for the sake of having something new because we cant make a game without new stuff. (which again, I thought was a huge problem in Gears 2). That's fine, but if it doesn't flow naturally, it just doesn't.



I used to like it, but I'm starting to think it's just archaic. It takes a lot of getting used to versus other modern games. I was thinking, Gears came out at a time when it was kind of the only next gen thing on 360. That's why a whole generation played that multiplayer back then. In a sense it was the only game in town. In 2016 it's not.

If this game sells poorly, like Judgement, maybe it's a systemic problem with the series. And maybe that's the gameplay. Anyways, since you haven't played it yet, it'll be more interesting when you have. Although I have a feeling you've set yourself to like it no matter what.

I love Gears in my head though...so, I dunno. It's Gears and Halo the twin biggies for me. Yet ironically both have been letdowns lately (but I'm not writing off Gears 4 yet, I'm only maybe an hour in). I wonder if they could update the gamepay and controls to be more in line with the times (COD/Destiny/Halo/maybe Uncharted?) while keeping the core of Gears.


I'm being negative but I still like the game so far. But, it's a bit...tedious. Looks stupendous though. It makes Destiny look last gen.

At least so far I feel like continuing to play now and again, probably a lot because of the visuals, which Halo 5 failed at.

This game definitely is a system pusher right up there with the stuff people gush about on PS4...the storm early on...wow.

It is kind of unfair to compare it with other games.
It is a game that relies more on cover shooting than most games. It wants to feel heavy. You dont really see soldiers in warzone running and gunning around. They run for cover. There is no stamina or a real physique to be maneuvering and running like an ultimate soldier constantly. So in Gears there is a sprint to run and rolls to go into cover to emphasize its cover based mechanic.

Yes it feels weird based on what we are used to but this is what it should be doing. But I do accept that there is room for improvement. I played all but Gears 4 and the controls havent evolved much since Gears 1.

 

[AlNom]

I played all but Gears 4 and the controls havent evolved much since Gears 1.

They added 8 directional rolling/evading.