Gamespy leaks Xenon specs (?)

The problem is that Microsoft is such a wealthy company, to see them cut so many corners and generally just be so cheap is a little disappointing.

I figured they would be willing to spend a little more money on their sophomore effort.

I figured wrong.

The leaks and comments of PS3 being a huge leap over the Xbox 2 are starting to gain credit.
 
Sweet! AC'97 codec for xbox2!

Sorry had to say it!

DOn't think lack of dedicated APU will hurt the console. At most it would take 1% CPU utilization on that Tri-Cored beast. Thats pretty smart decision overall. A MS PPU buyout announcement would be awsome though.
 
I figured they would be willing to spend a little more money on their sophomore effort.

MS lost massive amounts of money on XBox getting a foot in the door. Now they obviously feel that they have a foot in the door and its time to, worst case, significantly reduce losses. We've been hearing this about MS's next gen system for a while now. So I don't know why you'd expect XBox 2 to be a no expense spared system.
 
DemoCoder said:
It tells us the fillrate which is important *sometimes*. While 4gp/s looks enough to handle 720p at high overdraw, the question is, is it enough to handle a game with heavy usage of render to texture or stencil fill? The approach "Let's dedicate enough die to fill 720p @ 60hz, and then use all the space left over for shader-ALU" might hit a snag if it turns out you need several times the fillrate to do new and interesting algorithms which don't fit into the shader paradigm.

For the most part the graphics chips we are seeing now will never fulfill their fillrate potential, and thats exactly the reason why we see NV43 with only 4 ROPs and a 2:1 fragment ratio (as opposed ot NV40's 1:1) - this trend is likely to continue with the shader performance increasing more in relation to the number of ROP's so this is also likely to be where the primary developments are (the IHV's have already been advocating this for some time). I wouldn't think the stencil output need be a 1:1 relationship either.
 
The leaks and comments of PS3 being a huge leap over the Xbox 2 are starting to gain credit.

No. theres no credit to this huge leap nonsense, just fanboyism. The CELL will certaintly give the PS3 an advantage (2-3 times in flop ratings), but in terms of GPU we know little about either, but its a fair assumption going by past generations of Nvidia and ATI GPU's that they will be fairly similar in what they will be able to output.
 
ruds_wp said:
The problem is that Microsoft is such a wealthy company, to see them cut so many corners and generally just be so cheap is a little disappointing.

I figured they would be willing to spend a little more money on their sophomore effort.

I figured wrong.

Cutting WHAT corners?

This is a $300 console that in 3-4 years will be in the $100 range. Consoles have NEVER had as much memory as the PC, yet they have held their own quite well (PCs are ineffecient memory hogs). Even more, how can you say they are cutting corners if:

1) They have not one, not two, but three (!) 3.0GHz PPC chips; and

2) Has a cutting edge, top of the line GPU that outpaces the best desktop parts.

We have never, ever, seen this type of technology shoved into a console. You are talking about a dedicated box with static hardware (this means developers can actually utilize and exploit the machine). So while we could always want more, faster, bigger, better, I cease to see WHAT corners are being cut.

Some of your examples were silly. Yeah, lets take out the $2 camera and put in more RAM... opps, 128MB of GDDR3 RAM is magnitides more expensive than a little camera. 12x drives vs. 16x drives. Noise is always a consideration, as is real world performance. Higher speeds often mean more latency. And stability, as many mentioned, is a big factor. Real world bang for buck is much more relevant than "16x pwns 12x!!11".

As for the PS3 getting 512MB of XDR, go read some of the PS3 threads on this. Not gonna happen.

The funny things is (a) we are not sure if these are real specs from GS, and (b) these specs tell us very little. How big is the GPU? How many shader operations per clock can it perform? Does it have eDRAM? Does the device use USB?

When MS actually tells us what is in the X2 and shows off what software can do on it we can begin to judge it. But stating it is cutting corners without even knowing WHAT exactly is inside is silly.
 
Sounds good actually. Bear in mind that unlike Sony, MS is not a hardware company. This stuff sounds reasonable.

BTW the article does not mention the supposed 10MB of eDRAM/EDRAM on the GPU. When cpias posted how he is 'disappointed with it' the resident devs didn't dismiss it as fiction(actually they didn't explicitly acknowledge it either), so I assume there is still some truth to the 10MB? Maybe that's where the money went...

Question.

How do the sound engineers feel about the lack of a dedicated sound processor?
 
BigGamer X said:
Everywhere you look, all the DVD drives you see read at 16X. Been this way for years. It was standard even in May 01' when I bought a previous computer. I'm sure 16X has been available from 2000. Late 2005, and only 12X :?: :devilish:
16X drives are awfully more noisy than 12X ones. And as Deano pointed out, in real world disc accesses, the 16X do never outclass the 12X.
Also, you can be certain that the 12X Xbox 2 drives, will be 16X drives locked at 12X via firmware. Microsoft is being cheap on this, they're just
dealing, the best they can, with potential sound nuisances, caused by the hardware.
passerby said:
How do the sound engineers feel about the lack of a dedicated sound processor?
In the case of the Xbox 2, the presence or not of a sound chip doesn't mean much from a sound programmation point of view. In both case they'll have to deal with the sound API, X3D.
 
The only way you could find (the rumoured) Xenon specs disappointing is if you had very unrealistic expectations in the first place. Xenon is a monster of a console. Unfortunately, reading specs on the back of PC graphics card boxes has turned everyone into a hardware expert, where if the numbers you see for a console in terms of megaHertz or MegaBytes aren't higher than those of the top end PC of tomorrow, the console vendor must be being a skinflint and the platform will suck.

If Xenon can only output 8 Pixels Per Clock, the carnage will be horrendous. Never mind that the R500 will have a real world ability to outperform anything currently out there, we'll be inundated with nonsense like: "Xenon has 8 pipes my Radeon x800 XT has 16 Xenon is out of date and cheap low performance."

DeanoC said:
Disc flutter increases error rates, spinning the discs faster just causes more errors, causing more re-reads...

Last time I heard, no vendor could supply a 16X speed drive that had a faster real world read rate than a 12X.

Its not drives that have to change but the discs (I've heard MS XP test labs have exploded discs using 16X drives)

No, you don't understand. 16 > 12, therefore M$ are "cutting corners" and Xenon will suck. etc.
 
Disc flutter increases error rates, spinning the discs faster just causes more errors, causing more re-reads...

Last time I heard, no vendor could supply a 16X speed drive that had a faster real world read rate than a 12X.

Its not drives that have to change but the discs (I've heard MS XP test labs have exploded discs using 16X drives)

Didn't know that. Interesting.
 
Pozer said:
It's all in the games. Dramcast never had that game that everyone was dying to play (Soul Caliber was close). So the system failed. PS2, Xbox, GC all did. (Metroid,Zelda, MGS2, GTA, Halo, Splinter Cell, etc.) Thats why they're all still around.

If Xbox2 has a couple of games that I have to play and is priced right ($299)
Then I'll bite. If not. I'll wait. Most consumers will do the same. They've already proven the market can support 3 consoles.

I agree. The Dreamcast had some great titles, but none were AAA system pushers, they were just great supporting software (Let me use a movie analogy, to push a big title you usually need a big star as the headliner, but you also need a great supporting cast. The Dreamcast had the supporting actors, but none of the headliners).
 
You have to understand that while ms is gonig from hardware being the be all end all factor in the xbox to software being the be all end all factor in the xenon . Sony did the same thing but wit the same box

Sony put out the ps2 and to go against the dreamcast they claimed how powerfully it was . THen the cube and xbox came out and it shifted to software .

No company is above this
 
Why do they only supply two core chips to devkits? Isn't that more expensive than outright making three core chips, if that's what they're gonna use in final hardware?
 
marconelly! said:
Why do they only supply two core chips to devkits? Isn't that more expensive than outright making three core chips, if that's what they're gonna use in final hardware?
the masks and spins aren't done on the 3 core chip ?

Most likely the dual core chips are able to be made in larger numbers and are cheaper and will give the devs a good idea of what the chip will be capable of
 
Teasy said:
If MS is requiring all games to have a minimum resolution of 1280x720 then what does that mean for Europe? They're going to spend a large part of the XBox 2's power on something people won't see in Europe until like 2008..

Lol!!!! You don't think Europe has HDTV capable sets?

My friends in Germany had widescreen TV sets way back in the 90s - way before anyone in the US had them, so they'll be able to see the widescreen picture straight off the bad. Not HD, sure, but perfectly set up to see it properly.

And even here in backwards little Australia, there is a HUGE range of HDTV sets... my set does 480p, 576p, 720p, and 1080i, and if next gen consoles didn't support these resolutions I'd be SERIOUSLY pissed off.

Half-life 2 in 720p on my 36" CRT looks AMAZING. So so so much better than 480p. Bring it on. :D
 
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