Forza: The new simluation king? :D

[DeathKnight]

Forza may have an advantage in the graphic/sound department, but in replicating the feeling of driving a real car, GT4 with a Ligitech Driving Force wheel is superior in every way.

That's your problem there. You're playing GT4 with a wheel designed for the game and you're playing Forza with a controller. Play GT4 with a controller and get back to us on that one.

I really think you're in the minority on that one.

 

[Onkl Bjorni]

Forza may have an advantage in the graphic/sound department, but in replicating the feeling of driving a real car, GT4 with a Ligitech Driving Force wheel is superior in every way.

That's your problem there. You're playing GT4 with a wheel designed for the game and you're playing Forza with a controller. Play GT4 with a controller and get back to us on that one.

I really think you're in the minority on that one.

Of course I have played GT4 with the dualshock2 controller (purchased the wheel 2 weeks after I purchased the game), and I still think GT4 is the better simulator, but obviously the difference is smaller.

So as I said, Forza is not a bad game! I have played it some more today, and I'm getting more comfortable with the controls and feeling of the cars, but IMO I still think GT4 has the advantage.

PS:Anyone know of a good wheel for the XBOX..

 

[randycat99]

Personally i really don't see what's the point in comparing the 2.

If someone only has an Xbox, and he likes racing games, he will buy Forza cause it's a great game.

If someone has a PS2, he will buy GT4.

If someone has both consoles and is a real racing fan, he will end up buying both games, because real racing fans devour racing games. Like me, i can't get enough of them and HAVE TO play all decent racing games.

[gives the lone handclaps to initiate an applause...] Now this guy "gets it".

 

[DeathKnight]

and I still think GT4 is the better simulator, but obviously the difference is smaller.... but IMO I still think GT4 has the advantage.

Like I said, I still think you're in the minority

 

[zRifle1z]

Forza may have an advantage in the graphic/sound department, but in replicating the feeling of driving a real car, GT4 with a Ligitech Driving Force wheel is superior in every way.

That's your problem there. You're playing GT4 with a wheel designed for the game and you're playing Forza with a controller. Play GT4 with a controller and get back to us on that one.

I really think you're in the minority on that one.

Of course I have played GT4 with the dualshock2 controller (purchased the wheel 2 weeks after I purchased the game), and I still think GT4 is the better simulator, but obviously the difference is smaller.

So as I said, Forza is not a bad game! I have played it some more today, and I'm getting more comfortable with the controls and feeling of the cars, but IMO I still think GT4 has the advantage.

PS:Anyone know of a good wheel for the XBOX..

http://www.fanatec.com/ Here ya go!!

The XBOX console does not have a true Force Feedback function, and uses the vibration to simulate "Force Shock." I truly believe "simulation" type games should be played using a wheel for the best experience.

 

[randycat99]

Actually, what it comes down to is "whatever the new, big racing game for Xbox is now the GT3 killer". This exact discussion came up when PGR rolled in, when SegaGT rolled in, and now with Forza rolling in. One would think that if PGR legitimately beat the GT series the first time around, later games would no longer be challenging a comparison to GT. They would be saying it is the "PGR-killer". Then SGT would be the "PGR-killer". Then Forza should really be the "SGT-killer".

...but we don't see that. Always it goes back to "this xyz flavor of the month is hereby ordained as the GT-killer (we were just full of $hit when we claimed the very same thing for the last game we reviewed in this genre)!" Naturally, you got to acknowledge this looks pretty fishy once you see it happen a few times. If there is a "new game" that now beats GT, then that suggests that the previous games that made this claim must not have been true (otherwise, they would be claiming it is the "xyz-killer" of the game that actually did beat GT). ...and if this is suggesting a pattern, then it is quite reasonable to view the claim for this game with a good amount of skeptism. Only time will tell... It may very well be "the One", but no amount of hype-happy reviews and shouting down dissenters in public forums is going to make it any more knowable than the test of time. Just keep an eye out on the next driving/racing game to come out for XB/XB2 that bandies out the claim as the "GT-killer". No doubt, one time it will actually be true. In the meantime, consider the marketing value of pulling the "GT-killer" card? Worth more than a pile of gold, it seems. So that should tell you something about how likely it will be employed as a marketing tool whether it is really true or not. Whether or not it is true is so far from a marketing priority, it is laughable. This is not to say it is a comprehensive quality game. By the looks of it, it makes sense that a lot of honest work has gone into it to make it the best it can be. Whether or not it is a "GT-killer"?...That's really only of concern for those who are interested in bragging rights rather than good, fun games, and the ability to get down to the real bottom of the matter about as likely as getting the real lowdown on a Roswell UFO. Just be happy, buy the game, and have fun playing it, rather than worry about how well it "measures up".

 

[Phil]

and I still think GT4 is the better simulator, but obviously the difference is smaller.... but IMO I still think GT4 has the advantage.

Like I said, I still think you're in the minority

Based on what? Genouinly interested - if you're reasoning is good, I might rethink my stance until I get a chance to play the game (perhaps tomorrow)...

 

[Onkl Bjorni]

and I still think GT4 is the better simulator, but obviously the difference is smaller.... but IMO I still think GT4 has the advantage.

Like I said, I still think you're in the minority

Based on what? Genouinly interested - if you're reasoning is good, I might rethink my stance until I get a chance to play the game (perhaps tomorrow)...

Are you asking DeathKnight or me?

 

[Iron Tiger]

and I still think GT4 is the better simulator, but obviously the difference is smaller.... but IMO I still think GT4 has the advantage.

Like I said, I still think you're in the minority

Based on what? Genouinly interested - if you're reasoning is good, I might rethink my stance until I get a chance to play the game (perhaps tomorrow)...

Those of us that expect FF wheel compatibility in their driving "sims" probably number in the minority. I'm sure the sales of Forza will reflect that. Those of us that demand 60fps from a racer in this day and age are also likely in the minority.

 

[_phil_]

You will then pardon me to prefer minorities (yes ,i hated the new star war movies, loved ICO and had more fun with kilzone than with HL2 ,and i'm totally insensitive to HALOs )

 

[PC-Engine]

This would seem to imply that the reviews do NOT fully support your own observations of the game. Undoubtedly you agree where there are good things to be said, but how do you consolidate the bad things that are cited? They just cease to exist, right? Even your claim that the "reviews seem to agree with you" is bunk.

(to recap: First we hear you claim that Forza has every category beat, then we hear you say you completely agree with the reviews and the reviews back you up completely, then someone brings to your attention an excerpt from a review that cites some weak areas in the game, then you backpeddle from your earlier position, and challenge to compare pictures- if you and the reviews are in complete agreement, then why the need to compare pictures??? There should be no need, or your assertion that the reviews completely back you up is erroneous.)

...and then you fallback on the scores, "see, it has higher numbers, it MUST be better [dismisses the content of the review]". It never occurred to you that "the number score" is the shortcut way to evaluate for anyone who cares not to read the details? That's why you have a review that precedes it, because clearly, the numbers inherently cannot tell the whole story. Do you really think that the numbers that are conjured in a "game journal" are representative of any sort of vigorous scientific basis? Of course, not! It's essentially a "feel good" number put at the end of a review to satisfy those who think a game can be summed up to a "number" (got to serve your readership, right?)

Dear Sherlock, where did you pull this BS out from?

When a person pulls BS out of their @ss in a desparate frenzied attempt to distort and claim someone else is backpedaling, while conveniently glossing over what was actually said, it can be said that this person is suffering from symptons caused by a delusional disorder...

Go back and reread what I claimed. Then get back to me.

No I want a link to that specific review since I want to read all of it.

Then why did Forza get higher scores? More features and bad physics? You never learn do you?

You got the links, you should be able to find the reviews on their sites.

I know you are very upset, but i'm not saying Forza isn't the best racing game ever, sorry! What i said was that i doubted the driving sensation surpassed GT4.

Huh why would I be upset? Anyway I couldn't find those quotes you posted so I'm asking for the direct link. If you don't have it then I'll assume it's probably just some random review by some fan.

Though at least, it seems from the above, tkf has read the reviews that downplay Forza's visuals, as opposed to PCEngine who's using such reviews to back his argument it looks better than GT4? Am I understanding this right?

That all depends on how one defines *looks better* doesn't it? Pixel shimmering doesn't *look better*. That's not an opinion that's fact. GT4 having better art direction IS an opinion.

Again nobody claimed Forza had better visuals. It does run at 30fps, then again it doesn't have shimmering either. It's pointless to argue which *looks better*, that's why I wasn't the one to bring it up in the first place. It was brought up as a desparate last resort by somone to try and bring some damage control to GT4 losing to Forza in the physics and AI (simulation) department.

 

[_phil_]

but but kilzone 10-25fps oh noes! We should never fun with low fps games!

24 average (PAL) along the whole game(But since you didn't play it , i'd say it's a bit better than halo 1 frame rate -and a way more immersive game ).

But i did say that to bring suppport to your point concerning Forza:even if half the frame rate,and less subtility on road bumps to make the physics more expresssive ,one can prefer more trees along the road ,a better choc model and customability,no problem,let's just hope a good driving wheel will come.

 

[Kolgar]

You will then pardon me to prefer minorities (yes ,i hated the new star war movies, loved ICO and had more fun with kilzone than with HL2 ,and i'm totally insensitive to HALOs )

.... Brother?

 

[rusty]

Personally i really don't see what's the point in comparing the 2.

If someone only has an Xbox, and he likes racing games, he will buy Forza cause it's a great game.

If someone has a PS2, he will buy GT4.

If someone has both consoles and is a real racing fan, he will end up buying both games, because real racing fans devour racing games. Like me, i can't get enough of them and HAVE TO play all decent racing games.

now there's an opinion i can agree with.

Any game such as GT4 which has a devoted folowing is going to spark endless arguments when another game comes along to challenge it. Both games are great, neither game is available on the other system... and that's where the post quoted above comes in...

i can't wait for the debate when a game that rivals halo comes out on another console..... :?

for now, i'll happily play forza... and since i sold my ps2 a long time ago i'll happily play gt4 when i'm over at my friend's house who kept hold of his ps2.

and you know what? i'll enjoy both games. shocking.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

24 average (PAL) along the whole game(But since you didn't play it , i'd say it's a bit better than halo 1 frame rate -and a way more immersive game ).

Sorry for the offtopic, but I hope that wasn't funny even on your home planet.

 

[PC-Engine]

i can't wait for the debate when a game that rivals halo comes out on another console.....

Well some people were hoping KZ would be a Halo killer...I guess we'll have to wait for KZ2 on PS3 while we get Halo 3 on Xenon.

 

[London Geezer]

Personally i really don't see what's the point in comparing the 2.

If someone only has an Xbox, and he likes racing games, he will buy Forza cause it's a great game.

If someone has a PS2, he will buy GT4.

If someone has both consoles and is a real racing fan, he will end up buying both games, because real racing fans devour racing games. Like me, i can't get enough of them and HAVE TO play all decent racing games.

[gives the lone handclaps to initiate an applause...] Now this guy "gets it".

Awww thanks! i though my post went lost in a sea of flames. Which is quite a nice poetic image BTW...

 

[Iron Tiger]

but..but 24fps less 36fps, how ..how can any immersion! we lose all the precision of aiming! the fluid motion of frantic shooting! no 60fps no action daddy!!




tongue in cheek in case any mistakes. i not that anal with fps as long not in low tens twenties and very unstable.

So we all can agree now best to complete this big thread is say, if u enjoy gt, if u enjoy games, if u enjoy consim, Forza is must buy.

I enjoy GT, I enjoy games, I enjoy a console sim (when it's fun), but I don't feel I must buy a game that's stuck in the dark ages. There are some things that I was expecting coming into this generation like 60fps in ALL games. Most of the early PS2 titles let me down, but I was hopeful that the more powerful Xbox would be able to achieve the dream for me. When I heard that Halo ran at 30fps, and not even steadily, I regarded the game, the console, and the people behind it as garbage. It wasn't gonna displace Goldeneye as my favorite if it wasn't even gonna up the framerate. I did eventually buy an Xbox and Halo for it, and found the game enjoyable despite its framerate. But this is after playing Goldeneye, Turok, Red Faction and a host of other console shooters that worked well, even at a relatively low framerate. 60fps was never the standard for console FPS games, so I don't demand it.

However, after F-Zero X, Daytona 2000, Ferrari 360, Ridge Racer V, Gran Turismo 3, the Burnout series, and a bunch of other games established 60fps as the standard for racing games, I've come to expect it. When MS released PGR at 30fps, I thought it was just a first gen thing, they were still getting used to the console and the next games would run at 60fps. I didn't buy PGR because the framerate and the choppy reflections bugged the hell out of me. When PGR2 came along and had the same issues, I realized something was up. My decision to not pay any money for Forza is my vote against 30fps racing games. Somebody told me that a survey went out while they were developing the game, but nobody asked me, and I would like to be heard.

60fps has also become the standard of the 3D fighting genre. If Namco decided they were going to make a habit of building their fighting games to run at 30fps, I'd have to voice my protest by not buying them.

Blame Sega's AM2 and AM3 for showing me the wonders of 60fps. It was games like Virtua Fighter 2 and Daytona with their vivid, crisp imagery that made me a 3D enthusiast. I bought my first 3Dfx card so I could enjoy 60fps gaming at home, and once my friends saw it, they were also hooked. I don't play every game at 60fps today, but the ones that are have a greater immersive quality. If you've ever seen a commercial driving or flying simulator running off a wickedly fast array of video cards, you may wonder why it's got crap for graphics. Detail is the tradeoff they made to ensure at least 60fps and an immersive experience.

 

[Phil]

Wow, what a post! Exactly my thoughts Iron Tiger.

 

[a688]

If you've ever seen a commercial driving or flying simulator running off a wickedly fast array of video cards, you may wonder why it's got crap for graphics. Detail is the tradeoff they made to ensure at least 60fps and an immersive experience.

Not to rain on your parade but arn't most commericial simulators more focused on accuracy rather than making everything look pretty. The only commericial simulator I remember seeing was one for an airliner and they had multiple displays, one for each window of the cockpit so it also had a lot more crap to display than a standard single graphics card. I honestly don't think that 60 is a magic number of commericial simulators but rather just smoothness/fluidness no matter what the frame rate is. If you can give me a link to show me the light then please do.