Formula 1 - The Eco Friendly Motorsport!

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

I think the inconsistency of this shows it is about politics, not about justice. If you take the view that what Coughlan (Mclaren) did was without sanction from the team (to the extent that he has been suspended/sacked), but that the whole of Mclaren must bear responsibility for Coughlan's actions, then both Alonso and Hamilton should also bear the punishment by having their points wiped. The fact they have been left untouched is purely the FIA trying to not completely press the self-distruct button, despite the lack of consistency.

If you take the view that the whole team should be punished for the actions of their employees, then Ferrari should also have all their points wiped, as Stepney (who started all this off) was a Ferrari employee at the time and is currently being investigated for the theft of this data.

If Mclaren is guilty for the unsanctioned actions of Coughlan, then Ferrari is also guilty for the unsanctioned actions of Stepney. They both allegedly stole from the same F1 team, and apparently teams are punished for the actions of their employees regardless. Just because Stepney was employed by Ferrari at the time he stole from them, it doesn't make him any different from Coughlan stealing from Ferrari. If Maclaren is punished under these circumstances for the industrial espionage of their employee, then so should Ferrari for the same.

It is also worth noting, that if what we know is true, Stepney and Coughlan did not collude to steal secrets from Ferrari to take to Mclaren. They stole secrets from Ferrari to try and angle jobs for themselves inside another team (apparently Honda and Toyota).

 

[DuckThor Evil]

It would have been good if they reduced Alonso's points to 74 (Kimi has 74) and Hamilton to 77, which would have given Ferrari pilots a chance to race them for the championship and giving more concrete sportmanship related penalty to Mclaren. Now Mclaren basically only lost money. Drivers championship is where the glory is. and my my penalty model would have quaranteed more interesting season finale.

 

[RobertR1]

Mclaren lost a ton of money and more importantly Ron Dennis' constant bullshit got exposed.

I'm iffy on the drivers retaining their points. They should not allow McLaren to compete for the remainder of the calendar year.

 

[Bludd]

Mclaren lost a ton of money and more importantly Ron Dennis' constant bullshit got exposed.

I'm iffy on the drivers retaining their points. They should not allow McLaren to compete for the remainder of the calendar year.

Which would equal this with Tour de France.

 

[JardeL]

AFAIK it was not about the car but how they temper/prepare the tires for the race.

"Do you know that I've found out how Ferrari is able to get its tires to work to perfection?" de la Rosa was quoted as writing to Alonso earlier this year.

Its about car/tyre adaptation imo ...

I don't get why Hamilton and Alonso retain their positions and points ...
From Eurosport;

"As the team has been penalised so harshly, the FIA is effectively saying that the drivers have benefited from information McLaren illegally obtained," Jordan told BBC TV. "Is that fair?"

Jordan believes the drivers bargained with the FIA in order to avoid punishment, but equally does not believe the governing body would have been able to punish them and destroy the championship battle so close to the end of the season without facing a huge public backlash.

"The FIA would have been very mindful that the public at large would be appalled if Hamilton and Alonso were punished and Ferrari benefited as a result.

"This season is the jewel in the crown as far as Formula One is concerned in terms of the last few years and it is crystal clear the drivers could not be kicked out.

"The FIA have said to them 'you come clean, show us what information you have and you will be given a lenient passage'. That's what's happened I believe."

I agree with every single word of E. Jordan ...

This is an unfinished penalty imo ... They should do the same for drivers ...

 

[dizietsma]

F#cking ridicilous, FIA again proved they have no balls at all, the drivers get to keep their points, driven with (partly) stolen car, and keep on driving with the said (partly) stolen car to keep more points

Which parts are stolen? If you cannot name which then it is just supposition on your behalf. What you really mean is "you think" they stole some parts. You'd be great in court as a witness ....

Mercedes McLaren stole ideas for the car and that is why the 2007 McLaren has roughly the same performance as the Ferrari.

It is not quicker in general
It is not better on some tracks and Ferrari is better on others.

No, it's obvious that the McLaren is actually Ferrari mk 2. Errr ....


This $100m fine makes me laugh. I love nice round numbers, reminds me always of American law suits for greed. What will the FIA do with this money ? They should have made it a billion and given me some because I am emotionally distressed to some extent.

I have to say though I agree with the comments on the drivers, if they were really displeased with McLaren and having the moral high ground then they would have banned them too and caused the season to fizzle out. But no, they cleverly put in a get out clause before the meeting so that they could then say after the meeting that the drivers were still OK. Very clever indeed, morals still come second to $$$$$ with the FIA it seems.

 

[RobertR1]

I think with popularity of Hamilton and Alonso in their home countries, the FIA made a business decision.

 

[Bludd]

They made a public relations decision.

 

[dizietsma]

They made a public relations decision.

Which is exactly the same thing of course.

 

[Dave Baumann]

According to statements from McLaren the driver statements provided said "No Ferrari information was used".

We have to wait for the full report before this even begins to settle down.

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2727026,00.html

 

[Kaotik]

Which parts are stolen? If you cannot name which then it is just supposition on your behalf. What you really mean is "you think" they stole some parts. You'd be great in court as a witness ....

Mercedes McLaren stole ideas for the car and that is why the 2007 McLaren has roughly the same performance as the Ferrari.

It is not quicker in general
It is not better on some tracks and Ferrari is better on others.

No, it's obvious that the McLaren is actually Ferrari mk 2. Errr ....

I know the "stolen car" is exaggarating it, but still, IIRC one big thing was the tire-angles, there was some other stuff mentioned too, Ross Brawns estimate was that McLaren gained 0.5sec per lap speed from the stolen data/tech

 

[Bludd]

Which is exactly the same thing of course.

They are semantically different.

 

[Dave Baumann]

I know the "stolen car" is exaggarating it, but still, IIRC one big thing was the tire-angles, there was some other stuff mentioned too, Ross Brawns estimate was that McLaren gained 0.5sec per lap speed from the stolen data/tech

We're on a "control" tyre now. That information should have been given to the teams by Bridgestone anyway.

 

[Bludd]

The Bridgestone tyres used now are not the same as was used when Michelin was also a supplier.

Edit: Meh, all this politicking is getting me down. I'm still hyped for Spa this sunday, it is a great track and hopefully we'll see some good racing. Maybe it'll rain!

 

[Verge]

I know the "stolen car" is exaggarating it, but still, IIRC one big thing was the tire-angles, there was some other stuff mentioned too, Ross Brawns estimate was that McLaren gained 0.5sec per lap speed from the stolen data/tech

ferrari's can't finish races... or the championship would be a different story...


good punishment, and justly deserved... shady shady mclaren

 

[avaya]

Quite a disgraceful decision.

McLaren yet again besmirch the name of Mercedes with their actions. Ron Dennis' integrity facade is but a joke. McLaren are dirty dirty cheats. If anyone read Coughlan’s affidavit, which by the way was the only evidence presented on July 26th, you would laugh. 5 year olds could tell better lies than what was on that worthless piece of paper.

How they didn't receive the full 2 year ban, the correct, sporting punishment is unbelievable.

No Ferrari driver deserved to win the WDC but neither do driver's utilising illegal equipment. The WDC is a total farce.

That isn't even really a $100mn fine since it is less potential FOM income lost, so it equates to a possible $25mn only - total slap on the wrist.

Thankfully Ferrari's civil action continues against the cheats. That will end in prison time and more fines for the cheats.

I do hope Mr Dennis appeals, which will open the door for Max to throw him out for 2007 and 2008.

 

[dizietsma]

I know the "stolen car" is exaggarating it, but still, IIRC one big thing was the tire-angles, there was some other stuff mentioned too, Ross Brawns estimate was that McLaren gained 0.5sec per lap speed from the stolen data/tech

If they implemented it of course from the documents. Or they might have implemented it from just taking good photo's up close ( we know this goes on .. a la the photo of the extra pedal in a McLaren car a few years ago. ) and worked out the tyre angle. Or did Pedro claim that all their new stuff was from some stolen documents in his emails ?

 

[Kaotik]

We're on a "control" tyre now. That information should have been given to the teams by Bridgestone anyway.

The tyre, yes, the angle you put it in your car is up to you

 

[Dave Baumann]

The tyre, yes, the angle you put it in your car is up to you

If Bridgestone find that they run at a better angle then its beholden to Bridgestone to provide that information to all teams as the sole tyre supplier.

 

[dizietsma]

If Bridgestone find that they run at a better angle then its beholden to Bridgestone to provide that information to all teams as the sole tyre supplier.

No I don't think so Dave, it's like certain teams were not able to get heat into the same tyres and so make them perform last season. They just supply the tyres, they do not tell you how to make them work by adjusting mechanical or aeordynamic forces.

Like I said though, tyre angle can be picked up by photographs, does not need a document, though of course it could be that way also. Not proven.

Avaya, nice emotional stuff there.