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The Q3 pit incident was supposedly team coordinated for not following orders. Ron Dennis threw off his headphones due to Lewis' petulance. Such intrigues - and it's his rookie year...
I don't believe a word of it.

If he was angry with Lewis, he would've been angry in Q2 when he was supposed to have disobeyed the order, not just after Alonso sat their screwing up his chance of another lap. He also wouldn't have frog marched Alonso's trainer, the one supposed to be telling him to wait, down the pit lane refusing to talk to anyone about it.

Blaming Lewis is all a front, with Ron trying to cover up one of his drivers is a petulant little child that cannot take being beat by some rookie.
 
The Q3 pit incident was supposedly team coordinated for not following orders. Ron Dennis threw off his headphones due to Lewis' petulance. Such intrigues - and it's his rookie year...
The two longer stops for Alonso were, but the extra 11 seconds on the second stop between the lollipop being raised and Alonso actually getting away were not orchestrated - if it was, then the lollipop wouldn't have been raised.

Ron has pointedly said since the incident that neither driver are blameless in the overall result from Saturday.
 
He's already denied that claim. He was seen talking to an FIA official as he was going into the press conference (which isn't necessarily unusual) but he says that he didn't really discuss the blocking issue.
No. Hamilton said "I didn't discuss the matter intentionally" , or something like that. Like if he was asked and only after that he complained.
 
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No. Hamilton said "I didn't discuss the matter intentionally" , or something like that. Like if he was asked and only after that he complained.

http://www.paddocktalk.com/news/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=62545

Hamilton, however, denied asking the stewards to investigate the matter, despite members of the press finding him in conversation with one of the FIA representatives after qualifying.

"I was downstairs and one of the stewards was there but we didn't really discuss it," he said.
 
No. Hamilton said "I didn't discuss the matter intentionally" , or something like that. Like if he was asked and only after that he complained.

Let's assume that Hamilton didn't let Alonso by for reasons of one-upmanship. He didn't want to lose his place to Raikonnen, he didn't want to let Alonso by, and as Alonso dropped back and didn't come up again behind Hamilton, Hamilton was not put in the position of disobeying his team a second time. At this point, only the Maclaren team knows what has gone on with Hamilton and Alonso. At this point, only Hamilton is in deep shit with Maclaren.

Now instead of Alonso beating him on the track in qualifying, or being clever and leapfrogging him in the race, Alonso decides to be even more childish, blocking Hamilton and making sure Hamilton missed his last qualifying lap. Now the whole world knows what is going on, the cameras are on an angry Ron Dennis, all the commentators know instantly what is going on, the engineers are seen waving Alonso out as he stubbornly sits in his car looking at his trainer for a prompt to leave the pits.

Because of what Alonso did, Alonso drops down the grid five places to where he cannot win, Maclaren's dirty laundry is aired in public, Maclaren loses all constructor's points for that race.

If you owned Maclaren, who would you be more angry at? The young rookie driver doing far better than expected and scoring amazing points in his first year and who keeps internal team problems private, or the two-times world champion with more than five years experience in F1 bringing all these problems out in public for the whole world to see, taking away constructers points, and cutting off his nose to spite his face by putting himself in a lower position on the grid?
 
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No. Hamilton said "I didn't discuss the matter intentionally" , or something like that. Like if he was asked and only after that he complained.

*racial twaddle*

Much more of that and this thread will find itself in RPSC. Let's stick to commentary on the motorsport, rather than the colour of a driver's skin or his nationality.
 
If he was angry with Lewis, he would've been angry in Q2 when he was supposed to have disobeyed the order, not just after Alonso sat their screwing up his chance of another lap. He also wouldn't have frog marched Alonso's trainer, the one supposed to be telling him to wait, down the pit lane refusing to talk to anyone about it.
No, it's cofirmed by the recorded pit/car comms. Hamilton instigated the tirade once he didn't make his final Q3 lap. Paraphrased something like this:

Ham: "Don't effin do that to me again"
Dennis: "Don't effin talk to me like that"
Ham: "Go effin swivel"
Dennis: Tosses headphones

At parc ferme, Dennis was in deep exchange with Hamilton, then turned his back on him. Alonso's trainer was sent to Alonso to pacify/mollify him.

He's already denied that claim. He was seen talking to an FIA official as he was going into the press conference (which isn't necessarily unusual) but he says that he didn't really discuss the blocking issue.
Would you expect otherwise? Even if we accept his word, how does it look to the team? It's most definately unusual to be in the ear of a chief steward after a QF session where drivers should be at debrief - perhaps it was only an interesting happenchance occurrance.

The two longer stops for Alonso were, but the extra 11 seconds on the second stop between the lollipop being raised and Alonso actually getting away were not orchestrated - if it was, then the lollipop wouldn't have been raised.
The lollipop man wasn't under the guidance of the pit wall. In Alonso's first two stops, you can see his displeasure at being held in the box. McLaren needed to re-juggle fuel burn strategies for Alonso, so effectively used the pit to do it. For his final pit, they thought it prudent to forewarn him of a 20s stop. It's at this point that the team strategies conspired to create the sillyness that followed. I believe that Alsonso acted in the belief that the team sanctioned the action. There's no doubt (given Hamilton's invective above) that at least Alonso's half of the team with Dennis' imprimatur decided to repay Hamilton's flaunting of team directive. Their rationale was we've got 1-2 anyway, subsequently leading to the incredulity that "the team informed on itself"...

Ron has pointedly said since the incident that neither driver are blameless in the overall result from Saturday.
Doubtless. I take the perspective that Alonso's half of the team & Hamilton's half both had a go at one upmanship. One was the instigator & the other retaliated. Often it's the one that retaliates in the spur of the moment, that over-does it & get's penalized...
 
I just don't get it. Is there a time limit for your pitstop ? I mean I thought Alonso has the right to sit on that pitstop, for whatever long period he wishes. Its his pitstop afterall.

Its too bad in F1 you still have to share it. Considering how much a winning race is build around pitstop, its really bs to say that team mates are on equal chance of winning.
 
I just don't get it. Is there a time limit for your pitstop ? I mean I thought Alonso has the right to sit on that pitstop, for whatever long period he wishes. Its his pitstop afterall.
Now that's interesting, isn't it? The FIA has clear guidelines on enforcement of statutes governing impeding progress in qualifying. There's no distinction made on the basis of infraction between teams or between team members. However, the question of juristiction could be made. The second lane of the pits is under the purview of the team, excepting for actions that could be deemed to interfere with other teams (eg releasing a car from the second lane (pit box) into the first pit lane when dangerous to do so, etc).

The situation is definately non-sensical. If Dennis wanted to make a point he could've ordered the pit crew to bring Hamilton's car into the garage, albeit damaging Hamilton openly. The decision was made to adjust Hamilton's attitude in a minor but entirely obvious way. I do not think McLaren had considered this would be taken up by the FIA as a race/QF incident. The team sponsors, esp Mercedes, will be looking for answers...
 
The situation is definately non-sensical. If Dennis wanted to make a point he could've ordered the pit crew to bring Hamilton's car into the garage, albeit damaging Hamilton openly. The decision was made to adjust Hamilton's attitude in a minor but entirely obvious way. I do not think McLaren had considered this would be taken up by the FIA as a race/QF incident. The team sponsors, esp Mercedes, will be looking for answers...


Since all the business about Ferrari team orders a couple of years back, the FIA has been extremely sensitive to anything that might appear to show F1 in a poor light to the public, such as one driver being ordered to make way for another, or any kind of "race fixing".

The stewards could no more ignore this incident than a referee could ignore one football player punching another just because they are on the same team. As Giancarlo Fisichella was docked five placed for impeding another driver during qualifying, I don't see how they could let Alonso get away with the same thing and have a consistent application of the rules between two drivers that are not supposed to be given team orders.
 
Alonso free to leave Maclaren.

Ron Dennis has signalled that Fernando Alonso is free to leave McLaren after this season if he is cannot live with the team’s commitment to treating both drivers equally.
....
Alonso is understood to be unhappy that Hamilton has been given equal status in the team, when he had expectations of being the clear lead driver.
I'm not really surprised that the root cause for a lot of this is that everyone (including Alonso) didn't expect Hamilton to do so well. Alonso expected an easy ride from a rookie team mate, and instead he's ended up racing against someone just as good.

Where does Alonso think he's going to go to get a competitive car, number one driver status, an unequal team mate, etc? Does he think he'll get an easy ride at Ferrari against Raikonnen? Or a great car back at Renault who are severely struggling this year?
 
No, it's cofirmed by the recorded pit/car comms. Hamilton instigated the tirade once he didn't make his final Q3 lap. Paraphrased something like this:

Ham: "Don't effin do that to me again"
Dennis: "Don't effin talk to me like that"
Ham: "Go effin swivel"
Dennis: Tosses headphones

At parc ferme, Dennis was in deep exchange with Hamilton, then turned his back on him. Alonso's trainer was sent to Alonso to pacify/mollify him.
Still doesn't explain why he grabbed and started shouting and wagging his finger at Alonso's trainer though.

When it happened, it's clear to me that Ron didn't have a clue what was going on.
 
Since all the business about Ferrari team orders a couple of years back, the FIA has been extremely sensitive to anything that might appear to show F1 in a poor light to the public, such as one driver being ordered to make way for another, or any kind of "race fixing".

That's my other point, the team driver shared the one pitstop. Considering how many races are won by pitstop strategy, the race are pretty much "fixed" between team drivers. No team orders are bs as long as the team drivers have to share their one pit.
 
Still doesn't explain why he grabbed and started shouting and wagging his finger at Alonso's trainer though.

When it happened, it's clear to me that Ron didn't have a clue what was going on.

I rewatched the exchange between alonso's trainer and RD. After seeing it again, I doesnt appear to me that RD really manhandled the train guy. It appears that the trainer guy was holding his has up as if to say "dont get mad at me, I have no idea". Then RD talks to him a second, and they rush off to the drivers.

Just my two cents on what I saw there.

Either way both the drivers behaviors were very sub par. But it sure does make for good gossip. =)

I think it would be fun to see what would have happened if both driver could have pitted together. (two pit crews and boxes)
 
The lollipop man wasn't under the guidance of the pit wall. In Alonso's first two stops, you can see his displeasure at being held in the box.

This is part of a subscriber article in Autosport, so I won't strip out too much, but...

http://www.autosport.com/journal/article.php/id/1186

Meanwhile there was the matter of the now infamous countdown. The team wanted to get Fernando into clean air and have him complete his final lap as late as possible, with the maximum amount of rubber down on the track. The man responsible for relaying the countdown was not Hallam, but Mark Slade, who usually takes over some communication duties while in the pits.

In the course of Fernando's stop, Hamilton had pulled in behind him, and everyone in the team knew that whatever countdown Alonso might have benefited from, they still had to get Hamilton out as well. It was going to be tight, but there was time.

The countdown ended, and the lollipop came up. And that was the definitive signal for Fernando to leave - it has to be, for safety reasons, because it tells the driver that there are no cars coming down the pitlane. It makes no sense at all for the lollipop to go up, a countdown process carry on, and allow the driver to just head off.

So there is no question that the lollipop did mean 'go', and Alonso was indeed told by Slade to go. It was Alonso's decision to sit there.

The report also goes on to state that while Lewis did say "Don't ever do that to me again" over the radio to Ron, he didn't in fact swear first - Ron did! [Edit - Holy crap, the article is huge, I'm not even half way through yet!]
 
I think it was pretty childish of both drivers.

Next race is in Turkey, with the interesting quadruple Turn 8.
 
sooo. Hamilton was NOT penalised for going through 1st turn thus gaining position vs Massa.
Still anyone who believes that he is not treated preferentially? :p
 
sooo. Hamilton was NOT penalised for going through 1st turn thus gaining position vs Massa.
Still anyone who believes that he is not treated preferentially? :p

He got bumped off the apex by Massa hitting him, and neither gained nor failed to lose a place by missing the apex. Close call apparently. If Massa hadn't hit Hamilton, Hamilton would have made the apex, so it doesn't seem right for the place to be given to Massa after knocking Hamilton off line.
 
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