Formula 1 - 2009 Season
- Thread starter Dave Baumann
- Start date
Freak'n Big Panda
Regular
Anybody know why canada got crossed off the list for '09? I'm assuming it was because of the poor track condition but has there been any official word?
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
Money ofcourse.
pocketmoon66
Newcomer
Big News.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7749751.stm
"Formula One boss Bernie Ecclestone says he is determined to introduce a new scoring system that would see the driver with most wins crowned champion. "
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7749751.stm
"Formula One boss Bernie Ecclestone says he is determined to introduce a new scoring system that would see the driver with most wins crowned champion. "
Got back to the old scoring system that gives priority for winning is the best bet. Bernie will know all about that as he was the one who got it scrapped so more of the teams got points and stayed with the championship.
10 points for winning, 6 for second, just like the good old days.
What is stopping someone slowing down to deliberately hamper or even take out their rival if they are having a shocking weekend?
10 points for winning, 6 for second, just like the good old days.
What is stopping someone slowing down to deliberately hamper or even take out their rival if they are having a shocking weekend?
DuckThor Evil
Legend
The current scoring system is almost good. I agree that it doesn't make winning the race all that desirable, but I like the fact that 8 drivers get points. All it needs is a change on how many points the winner gets, and that should be 12 points.
edit: and Yes Bernie is an idiot and that new system of his is ridiculous. I sincerely hope it gets shut down.
edit: and Yes Bernie is an idiot and that new system of his is ridiculous. I sincerely hope it gets shut down.
The trouble is that having 8 cars scoring does keep some of the interest going for the lower places. Top 6 would lead to a lot less variety in where points the end up, especially if Ferrari/McLaren continue their dominance. As for gold/silver/bronze. I suppose that one way to destroy it as a spectacle.
I'd agree that the 10/8 points difference between 1st/2nd is a little small at the moment - why not just increase it to 12 or something? Or just arbitrarily muck about with the numbers until you get something that looks fair. Looks like Eccleston wants something that ensures that the driver with the most wins, wins the championship though.
I'd agree that the 10/8 points difference between 1st/2nd is a little small at the moment - why not just increase it to 12 or something? Or just arbitrarily muck about with the numbers until you get something that looks fair. Looks like Eccleston wants something that ensures that the driver with the most wins, wins the championship though.
Old: 10-6-4-3-2-1
Current: 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1
Current/12: 12-8-6-5-4-3-2-1
Proposed: Best results
Code:
Driver Old Current Current/12 Proposed
Massa 1st (83) 2nd (97) 1st (109) 1st (6x1)
Hamilton 2nd (80) 1st (98) 2nd (108) 2nd (5x1)
Raikkonen 3rd (56) 3rd (75) 3rd (79) 3rd (2x1, 2x2)
Alonso 5th (43) 5th (61) 5th (65) 4th (2x1, 1x2)
Kubica 4th (50) 4th (75) 4th (77) 5th (1x1, 3x2)
Kovalainen 7th (34) 7th (53) 7th (55) 6th (1x1, 1x2)
Vettel 8th (21) 8th (35) 8th (37) 7th (1x1, 0x2)
Heidfeld 6th (38) 6th (60) 6th (60) 8th (4x2)
Rosberg 11th (10) 13th (17) 13th (17) 9th (1x2, 1x3)
Glock 10th (13) 10th (25) 10th (25) 10th (1x2, 2x4)
Piquet 12th (10) 12th (19) 12th (19) 11th (1x2, 1x4)
Trulli 9th (13) 9th (31) 9th (31) 12th (1x3, 1x4)
Barrichello 14th (5) 14th (11) 14th (11) 13th (1x3, 1x6)
Coulthard 15th (4) 16th (8) 16th (8) 14th (1x3, 1x7)
Webber 13th (6) 11th (21) 11th (21) 15th (1x4)
Nakajima 16th (1) 15th (9) 15th (9) 16th (1x6, 2x7)
Button 17th (1) 18th (3) 18th (3) 17th (1x6, 1x10)
Bourdais 18th (0) 17th (4) 17th (4) 18th (2x7)
Fisichella 19th (0) 19th (0) 19th (0) 19th (1x10)
Sutil 20th (0) 20th (0) 20th (0) 20th (1x13, 1x15)
Sato 21st (0) 21st (0) 21st (0) 21st (1x13, 1x16)
Davidson 22nd (0) 22nd (0) 22nd (0) 22nd (1x15)Shame for Massa that the "consistency" points system means he missed out.
DuckThor Evil
Legend
Yes but you can't say that the events would have unfolded the same way, if alternate scoring system would have been used, if you change one variable other things are bound to change also. In essence it's impossible to tell what would have happened if other scoring method was used, as you alter your strategy when the rules are altered.
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Clearly.
I was just pointing out that looking at the table, any of these other points systems would have seen him champion. Even the Really Old points system (9-6-4-3-2-1) would have won him the title.
I don't agree. The FIA practically made it the "close race" towards the end it ended up being. With an alternative points system, chances are, we'd have seen less influence from the FIA (not to mention that Hamiltons robbed SPA victory would have netted more points in the alternative scoring system as well as seeing Massa loosing just as many). I think this whole idea that Massa missed out by pure bad luck and a unsufficient scoring system is a waste of time and should be left in the 2008 topic.
I agree, all of that should be left in the 2008 topic (not sure why you brought it up), however the points system change is a 2009 topic, is it not?
I thought a comparison table of previous, current, and suggested points systems would aid the discussion, but they are difficult to compare without a dataset of results to apply them to, and what better data to use than the most recent season's results?
It's all very well to say "I think the points system should be ...", but surely it's difficult to see the effects of that without data to compare?
So it is important to realise that the table is a comparison of points systems, based on 2008 results data. Nothing more.
Given that, it is a shame for F1 in general (I used Massa as my example as his was the obvious case, I should have known the ramifications of that
) that the balance of the current points system is noticably skewed more towards consistency over winning races than any of the others, but that is a criticism of the points system, the scale of which revealed by the data. It is not an attempted rewriting of 2008 F1 history - because as Dr Evil said, if the rules in 2008 had been different, the results would have been too.I was actually hoping to see thoughts on the midpack and lower end of the grid, as they seem to be the core of the argument against the proposed points system without anybody actually looking into it. For example, 14 drivers got at least one 3rd place ("Bronze medal") last season.
Fair enough, I guess I just wasn't fond of your comment regarding Massa, hence my reply, to your reply covering this specific point.
I'm thankful for that chart though - it really puts some substence to it and highlights the change that alternative scoring systems bring. To be honest, I see benefits and drawbacks to every score system. The 10-6-4-3 had Schumacher winning the season midyear making it less interesting for most involved. On the other hand, there was a real incentive to win and go for that 4 point lead. 10-8-6-5 is more on consistancy, but IMO is also a fair scoring system. Consistency is just as important and not always that easy as that last race by Hamilton showed racing for merely 5th place and trying to avoid a technical failure with the car in this very so important race. Perhaps a 12-8-6-5 system would be a good way to balance it out.
I'm thankful for that chart though - it really puts some substence to it and highlights the change that alternative scoring systems bring. To be honest, I see benefits and drawbacks to every score system. The 10-6-4-3 had Schumacher winning the season midyear making it less interesting for most involved. On the other hand, there was a real incentive to win and go for that 4 point lead. 10-8-6-5 is more on consistancy, but IMO is also a fair scoring system. Consistency is just as important and not always that easy as that last race by Hamilton showed racing for merely 5th place and trying to avoid a technical failure with the car in this very so important race. Perhaps a 12-8-6-5 system would be a good way to balance it out.
Fair enough.
One positive thing about 10-8-6-5... is that once someone gets a >10 point lead they seem to revert to a "consistency mode" where they are happy to pick up 2nd or 3rd places behind their competitors, which always seems to make the championship a lot closer at the end. That's how it seems to me, anyway.
Of course that is to the detriment of outright battles for the lead which a 12-8-6-5... system would hopefully encourage. There's definitely a balance as you say, nobody wants the title decided in July. Having said that 2002 was a freak year - 10-6-4... didn't stop us having final race showdowns in every season bar one from 1994 to 1999, for example.
From what I understand there is still a possibility that a driver won't need to overtake. If he has already won more than half the 17 or so races then he won't overtake. You could see teams fully concentrating for first half of season, get a champion and then trashed for rest of season.
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