Silent_Buddha
Legend
Is it just me, or is the thread title misleading? All I'm seeing in here is PS4 versus XBO.
Regards,
SB
Regards,
SB
Expected perceptual difference between Scorpio and PS4 Pro *spin-off*
- Thread starter Nesh
- Start date
Don't don't by resolution
Do it by pixels!
Just complete the multiplication!
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Perceptual difference between Scoprio and Neo will be larger than between PS4 and X1, because the differences will be greater and across more areas of the system than they currently are.
"More flops" and even "more fill" are one thing, but having significantly higher quality assets are what will really allow resolutions over 1080p to shine. Especially if there is actually the BW - and the will - to use aniso on the surfaces that need it.
But that's what an extra year and having the okay (due to being humiliated/owned/beaten) to go after higher end hardware gets you. It's not magic, or some kind of proof of righteousness.
Of course, if developers do it right, Scoprio will be 60 fps where other systems are 30 and so it will win outright, all the time. But ... in reality, we know that isn't going to happen. :/
"More flops" and even "more fill" are one thing, but having significantly higher quality assets are what will really allow resolutions over 1080p to shine. Especially if there is actually the BW - and the will - to use aniso on the surfaces that need it.
But that's what an extra year and having the okay (due to being humiliated/owned/beaten) to go after higher end hardware gets you. It's not magic, or some kind of proof of righteousness.
Of course, if developers do it right, Scoprio will be 60 fps where other systems are 30 and so it will win outright, all the time. But ... in reality, we know that isn't going to happen. :/
Still this is not the norm
Dynamic resolution isnt very perceivable unless it is on the extreme lower side most of the time.
900p for cut scenes? So what? The rest of the game is 1080p
Racing games are taking a significant portion of the library. And lets include Sports games. And remasters. And fighting games. And also these:
Fallout 4= 1080p on both
Mad Max=1080p on both
Hitman=1080p on both
Alien Isolation=1080p
Overwatch= 1080p dynamic on both platforms. Almost 100% identical performance
Naruto=1080p on both
Doom=1080p Dynamic resolution
Far Cry 4= 1440x1080p
Dying light=1536x1080 on XBoxOne
Far Cry primal= 1440x1080 on XBox One
Assasin's Creed Syndicate=900p on both
Transformers=1080p native on both
But before you go defensive I would like to remind you my initial point which isnt about XBOXOne vs PS4 but the perceived improvement of experience between PS4 Pro and what is offered by the less powerful consoles in cases where only resolution is improved.
Most people dont notice the difference in resolution and for a portion of those that notice it it doesnt make much of a diffefence in the overall experience.
For the PS4 Pro's improvement in experience to shine, it needs to output better framerates (not simply more stable framerates) and visuals should have better assets and effects. In the case of Pro there are many games that wont even be able to output native 4k and improved assets simultaneously just like in the case of Rise of the Tomb Raider
Project Scorpio will be better suited to improve res, effects and assets and framerates. An improvement in the overall package
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The raw specs shows ~40% flops difference. This is similar to Xbox One vs PS4, except the tables are turned. Most cross platform games should look similar and play similarly. I would guess the most visible differences are visible on 4K TVs and in VR, since those are taxing the GPU the most.
Scorpio would render at a higher native res that's for sure something like 1800p but not yet 4k, especially the 60fps games. It might also employ that checkerboard technique to upscale to 4k but would look a bit sharper than Pro's result. I expect more ultra settings to be used in Scorpio but not fully Ultra. The difference in multiplatforms would not be huge but noticeable if put side by side. As for exclusives, if devs are coding their respective title using PS4 and XBone as a baseline then there might not be much of a difference in the end. I think the difference in power between PS4 and Xbone as well as between Pro and Scorpio would cancel each other out. After all this is the what happens when a 6tf console is shackled by a 1.3tf console, the level design, assets, setpieces and physics would not deviate much if at all from the lowest common denominator. While in Pro's case, since its baseline is 40% higher, you would naturally enjoy say a bigger level design, more characters on screen etc on the get go, but only looses out in the resolution. Now of course it's hard to compare exclusives directly unlike multiplats but that's the underlying mechanics, more or less.
So in short, PS4 Pro first party games should hang graphically in the same ballpark as Scorpio first party games.
So in short, PS4 Pro first party games should hang graphically in the same ballpark as Scorpio first party games.
My theory is that they will never be in the same price range and will not really be competing products. The spec difference is simply too large, and the PS4 Pro is so pure a games machine that Scorpio can't lose any fat to make up for it. So yes, I definitely expect some visible differences, in resolution, frame rates and certainly textures in some cases too. But then Sony could release another model just the same again.
6TF and 12GB sound impressive now, but by Holiday 2017 who knows whether anyone still cares? It will be interesting.
6TF and 12GB sound impressive now, but by Holiday 2017 who knows whether anyone still cares? It will be interesting.
A true shackling is missing critical features or a power gap so massive it's implausible for the device to perform the workload at any reasonable comparable level.
It's like last generation holding back dx11 based games because they didn't have compute shaders. It's like dx11 based games shackling potential of dx12 because the pipeline everything requires an entire overhaul.
The power divide so massive it's implausible for it to even attempt the workload.
Right now I don't see those shackling
Shortcomings for these mid
Generation refreshes. I really don't. I do see a lot of this old dx11 tech lingering around, we have very few pure bred dx12 style ground up based engines. We likely won't get many of them until way into 2019. But when we do I feel that will enable the baseline consoles to keep up.
How is 5x of a XBone power not a generation shackling? 360 to Xbone is ~5x power increase itself. Scorpio's true potential is vastly limited as a result.
By the time of 2019-2020 we will be seeing the advance of PS5 at least since it will be the end of a 7 years cycle and there is simply no need for the current gen to adapt to anything.
I couldn't really see much of a difference between xo and ps4.
so not sure how much if any difference I'll see between ps4p and Scorpio.
what I will say though is that xo and ps4 was close spec wise apart from gpu.
if Scorpio has better cpu and lot more memory etc, as a total package I expect that the difference will be more visible. Better assets etc.
the comparison isn't apples to apples.
360 dx11 level gpu, cpu, etc.
that makes a huge difference.
if Scorpio was forced to use same assets, and had a big change in gpu tech then I could see why xo would be seriously holding it back.
that would be the case between 360 and xo
I know that you're a good friend to the world of 60hz, but amongst your developer brethren is there any interest in pushing their games to 60 hz on Scorpio, and settling for a well upscaled base colour buffer somewhere between 1080 and 1440?
MS will need to sell Scorpio to people who haven't upgraded to 4K tvs yet in order to quickly gain mass adoptance. 60 hz games with less destructive motion blur and good aniso would benefit every TV user and almost all gameplay. Would also be a much better natural fit for current VR headsets ... if that's actually going to be a thing that gets any traction.
Rurouni
Veteran
I don't expect much difference visually tbh. I expect a difference like turning the option on PC games from medium to high + higher res. If Scorpio have a massively faster CPU, most of it will probably be unused. The full potential of the CPU might be used when next gen arrive, so the extra CPU power can somewhat be a guarantee that the Scorpio can play next gen games. So if Sony do PS4 - PS4Pro then totally new gen with PS5 - PS5Pro, then MS will probably do X1 - Scorpio then Scorpio - X2 then X2 - Libra then Libra - X3. So MS might be planning to support at least 2 console.
I actually hope that Sony will include a much faster CPU for Pro as a guarantee that it won't obsolete when PS5 come. With the current Pro spec, they definitely should have a PS5 exclusive game.
I actually hope that Sony will include a much faster CPU for Pro as a guarantee that it won't obsolete when PS5 come. With the current Pro spec, they definitely should have a PS5 exclusive game.
mainly because 5x of that power is going to be used towards resolution.
look at this post here:
#161
if quality is being defined at flop/pixel, and there are no missing feature sets from XBO to Scorpio (to stretch manipulate this value further), than quality can only be described as flops/pixel. Unless there's something else happening on the CPU side of things. If the flops/pixel are the same, the features sets are the same, you're not seeing any sort of shackling.
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As you can see in your own list, only non demanding games can run at 1080p on XB1. Once again, the hardware is what it is. There is no magic. Really, i don't get your point...
Spec difference is exactly the same as PS4 vs Xbox One (+40% flops). Why would't Scorpio be competing against PS4 Pro and be in the same price range? There's diminishing returns in flop increases. The difference will be even smaller than we see currently with 40% spec difference.
1.4x is nothing compared to usual console generation improvement of 6x to 10x. They as close to each other as consoles in the same generation tend to be: Xbox vs PS2 vs Dreamcast, Xbox 360 vs PS3 or Xbox One vs PS4. If it costs more than 100$ extra vs PS4 Pro, they need to bundle next Kinect or VR.
Of course the difference between Xbox One and Scorpio will be much bigger than PS4 and Pro. Scorpio is easier to sell for existing Xbox One owners, as the improvement can be clearly seen. If Scorpio adds support to VR, it will generate additional interest to buy it. PSVR games work on both PS4 and Pro.
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