Encyclopedia Brown & The Mysterious Case of the PS4 and the Missing Anisotropic Filtering

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Rangers, Feb 14, 2015.

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  1. Prophecy2k

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    :idea:
    "m issue" = Microsoft issue?

    Microsoft's fault confirmed!
    :runaway:
     
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  2. Globalisateur

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    Dying Light has being patched with 16xAF apparently (many people thinking so, not just me):

    Before patch:
    [​IMG]

    After patch:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    That's interesting because it strengthens the theory that it had originally some low level of AF like 2xAF, if we judge the amount of filtering difference versus 16xAF. EDIT: maybe it uses only 8xAF, the filtering near the fence is not perfect on the third image. Not sure if 16xAF could be compatible with this.

    Also I read this interesting theory about the hypothetical cause of the problem:

    It would fit with Fafalda 'API misuse issue' even if as usual those are wild assumptions and if I still scratch my head at the Open GL stuff. But it could come from automated tools doing some of the engine port ('engine port' being still the pervasive common element in all known Benjamin Button reduced AF cases).

    Updated List of known Engines with reduced AF on PS4:

    - Unreal Engine 3
    - CryEngine 3
    - Gamebryo
    - Chrome Engine 6
     
    #282 Globalisateur, Mar 12, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2015
  3. Xmas

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    These screenshots do not necessarily indicate use of AF. Supersampling (which seems to have been used, judging by the vegetation, and would be a likely feature for a photo mode, anyway) similarly improves blurred textures, just at a much higher cost.
     
  4. Cyan

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    Well, Unreal Engine 3 isn't my favourite engine ever, that's for sure. It wasn't very console friendly in the previous generation, so I am happy about the fact that UE4 is out. CryEngine 3 and Gamebryo seem to be better refined so there has to be a different reason.

    If the reason about those particular games where AF isn't what it should be on the PS4 is what Fafalada says about misuse, we should study the exclusive games of the PS4 then, 'cos there is no reason at all for developers to misuse such a feature in an exclusive game.
     
  5. Globalisateur

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    The only exclusive-ish lacking AF on PS4 (compared to another version, here PS3 hence the -ish) is The unfinished Swan which was done by a third party developer, ArmatureStudio, who ported the original Gamebryo engine used in the PS3 version. Conclusion of this study: Another case of "Engine port" from a originally directX 9 targeted engine.

    But let's go deeper with The Unfinished Swan: PS4 vs VITA:[​IMG]

    Compared to Vita, PS4 seems to have some (low) level of anisotropic fitlering (bilinear or trilinear on Vita?). 2xAF wouldn't surprise me here, and again, this 2xAF number.
     
  6. iroboto

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    edit: also very difficult to tell between 8x and 16x btw. Really difficult. Without direct comparison it's really challenging.

    Latest post on GAF on Dying Light AF Patch. Reported AF increased, but they feel LOD decreased. You're going to have to look at it yourself to judge, but I think looking at the trees they might be right:

    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=156286873&postcount=1379
     
  7. goonergaz

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    really need to compare with XBO latest version of same location to be 100%, it's possible the one with less foliage is taken slighty further back...
     
  8. iroboto

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    That's a pretty perfect overlay. It's unlikely that this person is standing on the culling edge, move a pixel forward and have the foilage around the trees emerge. LOD if you don't want people to notice would be further in the background.
     
  9. goonergaz

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    IIRC the person who did that cropped the images to fit, there was someone else who showed the orignal images in their entirety - unless I'm mistaken. Either way it could also be a loading issue so would need more comparisons to be sure (and again comparison with XBO would be nice to complete the picture)
     
  10. iroboto

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    The HUD is perfectly in the same spot in both images.
    If there was cropping this would not be the case no?
     
  11. goonergaz

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    Sorry, it's hard for me to check - I think the thread has moved on a bit since the last time I saw those pics, either way we can see AF improved on PS4 the question is - has it changed on XBO too?

    edit - why do the trees have more leaves?
     
  12. iroboto

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    IMO the leaves are the same amount, shadows/time of day makes it appear like it's fuller.

    I'm not sure what the patch does for Xbox One.

    The patch for AF on Dying Light improved it on PS4 up to at least 8x, but the discussion is whether or not they took a hit on LOD to bring in AF at that level. I don't want to bring in Xbox into this discussion piece, since we should be comparing strictly two versions of PS4 since we have no clue what settings are for the Xbox version - we're comparing apples and oranges.

    What this does tell me/reiterate for everyone are 2 things:
    a) AF can be enabled by the developer, not an SDK bug
    b) AF is not free, hence the reduction in LOD as the trade off.

    And so the only debate left is whether LOD is being impacted here in the patched version of the game. If it is reduced, then it is as I have written many times earlier, developer choice when shipping their game as per usual.
     
  13. goonergaz

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    I don't know, the time of day looks very similar yet one set of trees definitely looks more 'full' (esp. the one in the middle).

    I don't think anyone is saying AF is free, and LOD may have been sacrificed, but seeing the XBO version would be a nice comparison as that always had the AF (so maybe they already did the same thing so all they did was make the PS4 version the same - almost like they 'forgot' a final tweak).

    Also it would be nice to see more than one picture compared, just to see if it's across the board.
     
  14. DrJay24

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    LOD is a lot harder to measure. You have confounding things like time of day, asset streaming, possible non-deterministic asset creation, etc. I recall a debate here about missing rocks in BF4 pics and how that was proof the PS4 had lower res textures. It just ended up being differences in textures, they didn't have the same "stuff", but nothing was better or worse.
     
  15. goonergaz

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  16. TheAlSpark

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    I like how that car seems to float.
     
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  17. iroboto

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    Sure, I don't mind waiting to see more evidence, we've been I guess for the most part trying to build it up. GAF seems to be doing a good job there on this front, so I'm just going to wait and see how this plays out. For sure though you guys could be right and the LOD is just awash. For the trees, they could be moving with the wind so once again that could be a wash as well, it's really hard to judge without further proof so until then we're just going to have to wait and see. Unfortunately I do not own the game so I can't provide any help on the matter.

    edit: looking at the screen shots has made me want to play this game lol.
     
  18. DrJay24

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    The game is very dynamic, the winds is always blowing garbage and leaves around. From the little gif, it looks like time of day changing the shadows and wind. I think people are trying to drudge up something negative, system wars and all that.
     
  19. HTupolev

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    The bigger news is that we're looking at a build of a 3D mainline Final Fantasy game where the textures aren't undersampled.
     
  20. iroboto

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    Yea, I agree with that. For me, this particular aspect is the most interesting piece of PS4 we've ever been given information on in a long time. Comparing it to Xbox doesn't seem like the right thing to do, the games likely aren't running the same settings, that and Xbox has it's own set of problems that people have finally become comfortable with. People tend to associate performance of the game to be performance of the hardware; which there is some correlation, sure, the game is running on the hardware, but it's rare for any multiplatform game to really saturate and optimize equally for all it's different platforms. I don't think we'll see games really be truly reflective of the performance of the hardware until near the end of the generation.

    I've been trying to establish that game developers generally know what they're doing, I just have a hard time believing that developers are missing the mark on AF by accident. If there is a hardware issue with AF, that's an interesting thing to talk about, like esram, that has it's own set of issues, but issues can be worked around. Like Shifty said earlier, expect to see these problems go away in the future (developers will figure a way around this, likely easier to do this than fitting 1080p into esram lol). But right now, if there is no software issue, and for some reason there is a hardware issue, it's something we didn't know about the hardware.
     
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