Emulated PS2 titles coming to PSN

[onQ]

I think Vita & all the new Tablets & Phones that will be coming out in the next few years that will play PlayStation games gave them the push they needed to feel like it would be worth it to recompile the PS2 games & put them on PSN to play on PS3 & other devices.

& I'm pretty sure that most of the people who was saying that there was no way that the PS Vita would be able to play PS2 games because the PS3 couldn't do it are now having 2nd thoughts about the possibilities.

 

[KongRudi]

Huh ? The PS2 titles on PSN should play on every PS3 right ?

Yeah..

What I meant is that you're not downloading only the PS2-game, you are downloading the PS2 game and a emulator made just for that game, baked around that PS2-game into one product.
They've probably altered some game-code in addition to emulating the PS2.

So if you sit with the PS2-savegame on your PS2, and you try to copy it to your PS3.

The emulator running the PS2-game, will not manage to find it, because the memory-card slot isn't there anymore, and the emulator in one game might have differences from the emulator used in other PS2-games, you might download from PSN.
Because you could code closer to the metal on PS2, compared to PS3, and you didn't necesarrily use C+ libraries on PS2.
You can't just download the emulator either, and just throw in your PS2-game disk, because the emulator istrying to run a file on your hardrive instead, of the DVD-rom.

So basically, the PS2-games you download, will work as a PS3-game with really bad graphics.. :-/ It won't make your slim PS3 backwardscompatible, even if you can now run PS2-games, and the PS3-savegames won't be compatible with your PS2-savegames.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

That sounds very improbable to me. Reengineering the title means working with the source code, which is a mammoth task. It's more likely that Sony have a general emulator with title specific optimisations and profiles. Save games will be bytewise identical to PS2 saves. The game only asks for the game file and the emulation can redirect that to any source including HDD. Whether emulation is in firmware or embedded in the download, I don't know. A comparison of download file sizes with original ISO's should be quite telling.

 

[onQ]

That sounds very improbable to me. Reengineering the title means working with the source code, which is a mammoth task. It's more likely that Sony have a general emulator with title specific optimisations and profiles. Save games will be bytewise identical to PS2 saves. The game only asks for the game file and the emulation can redirect that to any source including HDD. Whether emulation is in firmware or embedded in the download, I don't know. A comparison of download file sizes with original ISO's should be quite telling.

I did a search last night & found the size of a God Hand PS2 rip it's 1.45GB vs the 1.48GB PSN download

 

[patsu]

The PSN PS2 copy is probably a compressed bundle (installer) for the real game. I _think_ the real game could be bigger than the size you noted.

EDIT: is 1.48GB the size of the installed PS2 game on HDD ? Or is it the size of the downloaded package on your HDD ?

 

[onQ]

The PSN PS2 copy is probably a compressed bundle (installer) for the real game. I _think_ the real game could be bigger than the size you noted.

EDIT: is 1.48GB the size of the installed PS2 game on HDD ? Or is it the size of the downloaded package on your HDD ?

I'm not sure, it's what someone posted as the file size on Neogaf

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=447195

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You might want to link to the actual post rather than hope we'll wade through a lengthy thread.

AFAIK PSN download sizes and size on disk are identical. Downloads aren't uncompressed onto HDD during installation to create lots of bigger files, or even a single larger file. Hence why the listed requirements for HDD space for a game is the same as the download size. 300k difference perhaps is a load of profile stuff with the emulator in FW? We'd need a comparison of all the downloads to see if the variation from PS2 original is uniform or not.

 

[onQ]

You might want to link to the actual post rather than hope we'll wade through a lengthy thread.

AFAIK PSN download sizes and size on disk are identical. Downloads aren't uncompressed onto HDD during installation to create lots of bigger files, or even a single larger file. Hence why the listed requirements for HDD space for a game is the same as the download size. 300k difference perhaps is a load of profile stuff with the emulator in FW? We'd need a comparison of all the downloads to see if the variation from PS2 original is uniform or not.

it's in the OP

Edit:

also

Maximo: Ghosts To Glory PSN file size 713MB vs 690MB PS2 ISO


Odin Sphere PSN 3.28 GB vs 3.2GB PS2 ISO


Grim Grimoire PSN 1.33 GB vs 1.30 GB PS2 ISO

 

[patsu]

You might want to link to the actual post rather than hope we'll wade through a lengthy thread.

AFAIK PSN download sizes and size on disk are identical. Downloads aren't uncompressed onto HDD during installation to create lots of bigger files, or even a single larger file. Hence why the listed requirements for HDD space for a game is the same as the download size. 300k difference perhaps is a load of profile stuff with the emulator in FW? We'd need a comparison of all the downloads to see if the variation from PS2 original is uniform or not.

I did a quick check. The listed file size is indeed the same for the download bundle and the install footprint. It's a little strange if the game unpacks into many files (There should be more overhead, and less likely to use up the same space).

In any case, I guess that number should be interpreted as the install footprint.

 

[onQ]

so it seems to be a 23MB size difference ,

any guesses on how big the Digital Manual is that comes with the PSN downloads?

 

[patsu]

The size difference is small and it varies. Still not too sure but holy sh*t if PS3 can "run" a PS2 ISO.

 

[onQ]

The size difference is small and it varies. Still not too sure but holy sh*t if PS3 can "run" a PS2 ISO.

I'm not sure if it varies (by much) because the bigger file sizes that are shown in GB might be rounded off , & looking at the smaller size game that showed a 23MB difference make me think that the .030GB difference that's being shown in the Bigger files is just 23MB being rounded off

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The size difference is small and it varies. Still not too sure but holy sh*t if PS3 can "run" a PS2 ISO.

That looks to be the case. I think the emulator is in FW but requires profiled games only, hence the expanded file sizes to include emulation data. It'll also only work on some titles, like XB360, so Sony will have to test and profile games one at a time. We could do with hackers taking a PS2 game ISO, PS2 download, and playing around until they figure it out.

 

[patsu]

How did they emulate GS and EE in software ?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Same way PC emulators do - a lot of work on the part of the emulator writers to use the hardware as efficiently as possible in pretending to be different hardware!

 

[onQ]

How did they emulate GS and EE in software ?

my guess is instead of trying to emulate the CPU & GPU by brute force they broke the jobs up into small jobs for the SPEs & the RSX ,

I think they have found some kinda breakthrough in Emulation because Vita will be emulating the PSP in Software & the Tablet S will also be emulating the PSP in Software



isn't The Cell with RSX almost like having a programmable GPU maybe they programmed the Cell & RSX to become the EE & GS


(well that's the theory I had for how Vita would emulate PS2)

 

[Npl]

Pinch me, no slap me,... bite me. I think I`m dreaming...
Just noted the "PS2 Classics" are now on PSN, I am considering getting the Maximos. Anyone already spent money on some PS2 games?
do you get some decent upscaling or better filtering?
do discs from games that are supported (sold in the store) work? (I guess not)
I`d also like to know if the Maximo version is the unplayable European 50Hz slow-as-molasses one... guess its time to order an US PSN Card... just to be sure.

Being ever pessimistic I guess having those PS2 games on PSN makes a "HD remaster" unlikely.

 

[jonabbey]

I played the PS2 version of Twisted Metal: Black that you get with a copy of the new Twisted Metal disc. Interestingly, it very much looked as though it was playing with my launch PS3's internal hardware emulator.. at the least, I had to turn my controller back on by hand after starting and stopping the game.

Sure looked like it was deferring to the internal hardware to me, anyway.

 

[patsu]

Is it really running on a PS2 software emulator ? I still find it hard to believe.

 

[Npl]

Well, I bought "Maximo vs Army of Zin" yesterday, and given that I have a PS3 without any PS2 HW so it certainly runs without that.
Some things I noted:

• Sound can skip/echo sometimes. Really looks like software emulation issues and I hope this gets fixed.
• Graphics look surprisingly good, and smoothing adds some kinda MLAA.
• To me it seems that the emulator generates interlaced fields, and then fixes that up with filters. Some kinda artifacts you (rarely) see with text (not using smoothing)
• you get the choice between native res (480p, stretched), and 720p (both aspect corrected or stretched to full screen). which means in 720p your PS3 scales to 720p and the tv to 1080p - which makes it hard to determine what filtering/scaling exactly is happening. would like a 1080p mode so scaling could (atleast theoretical) be optimal.