EA announces new development studio headed by Zampella, West.

Problem is, we still only really know one side of the story.

If Zampella and West were in discussions with other companies as Activision alledges, then they were in a no-win situation from the start.

Not true. The only party that made the situation no win was activision. Its perfectly normal in the tech industry to see what opportunities are available. If you as a manager are going to get pissed about that, you have problems.
 
Nice side step, especially as you use that as a launching pad to AIMLESSLY attack someone's credibility. Maybe I shouldn't be too hard on you, maybe you don't understand how a software studio works? I have only worked on the services side but I know a lot of people who do work in software development studios and the input I get from them is all the same for a studio like this.

Whose credibility am I attacking? Mr Anonymous? Someone with a stake in the matter tells Kotaku that IW is dead in the water. How can you lack the critical insight to realize that his claims are heavily tainted by his own personal interests? Yes, IW lost a lot of important people. Who's left behind? I'm sure you don't know and neither do I. Why are you pretending to actually know something, though?

Fact #1: of the sub-100 person studio a smaller percentage yet are actual responsible for major design decisions and implementations

Fact #2: Your "leads" are typically much more responsible for the direction of your project than your junior members.
Sure, and those people do have a lot of talent. That said, MW2 has a ton of flaws which these people were also directly responsible for. Does them leaving IW gets a breath of fresh air or does it mean that all talent is gone? Activision will say the former, Respawn will say the latter. Both have a horse in this race, we won't know 'til their games are out.

That said, if the exodus continues and no one (or nearly no one) is left at IW then yeah, IW is just a husk.

MW2 gets a lot of hate, especially among PS3 owners and PC gamers, we get it. We also get the game isn't perfect. But there is no denying that IW's products, especially CoD2, MW1, and MW2 have had massive consumer appeal, critical acclaim, and industry clout.
Why would PS3 owners dislike MW2? If you're going to make childish accusations of fanboyism, think it through, first. The game sells enormous amounts on PS3, a few of its most stringent defenders here are PS3 owners. But MW2 has serious problems; the funny thing is that now, IW will start getting the sort of hate reserved for Treyarch when their next game comes out and isn't that different from MW2.

As to consumer appeal, though, WaW shows that the consumer doesn't necessarily respond to IW so much as they do the Call of Duty name (and that critical acclaim and industry clout aren't that significant when it comes to sales).

To downplay the 13 significance of the departure of the above individuals is just stupid.
No, what's stupid is to listen to say, one of those 13 people saying 'without us, the place we left is lost' and go 'well, if he says it to the media it must be true, there couldn't possibly be more to it than that!' Of course the 13 people are important, but those 13 people don't guarantee that Respawn will actually release a good or successful game.

Also, I'm not downplaying their importance. MW2 was mostly them, true enough. What I'm saying is that that's good and bad. Personally, I felt there were design decisions in MW2 that were great, but others that I loathed.

The guys who left weren't smucks--they are responsible for one of the most successful titles, critically and financially, ever. Period.
It was highly rated (and MW is actually really good), critically, sure enough, but I'm not sure about one of the most. There are like 40 games with MW/MW2's Metacritic score and MW is 78 on their list. In a percentile sense, I guess you're right. And certainly, IW built the name ATVI made its fortunes on. Problem is, it seems like ATVI gets to keep it.

Hence your "unreliable" source is dead on. The list only backs what he is saying.
Again, you're talking about stuff you just don't know.
 
How can you lack the critical insight to realize that his claims are heavily tainted by his own personal interests?

And yet you can fact check the significance of his claim regarding key personnel, and he is right in this regards, so dismissing his inside perspective without first looking into the issue is lazy.

Yes, IW lost a lot of important people. Who's left behind? I'm sure you don't know and neither do I. Why are you pretending to actually know something, though?

Again, laziness on your part. Go read the credits and compare with who left the studio.

Not only are you lazy, you are conferring you laziness as some meritless attack on me. What do I know? I have worked for software and services companies and did 5 minutes of fact checking to see who made the title versus who left.

So I don't know everything (never claimed I did) it appears I know a lot more than you based on your previous comments and these.

Sure, and those people do have a lot of talent. That said, MW2 has a ton of flaws which these people were also directly responsible for.

Every game has flaws. Yet this criticism is pretty much irrelevant because your suggestion is that MW2 requires major changes. Regardless of what elite forumgoers playing other games may think MW2 is the best selling shooter ever. Best selling shooter on the PS3. It is critically acclaimed as well as well regarded in the industry. And the consumers, "faults" and all, not only continue to play it to the exception of other games month-after-month the game continues to sell amazingly (i.e. great word of mouth).

Any discussion of faults outside this context are pretty pointless.

That said, if the exodus continues and no one (or nearly no one) is left at IW then yeah, IW is just a husk.

Wrong.

If the core developers who seeded the company and provided guiding creative input as well as the majority of the core design group on recent games leave the company is *already* a shell of its former creative talent.

That has no bearing on whether the house can make good, even better, games. (Never said otherwise) But the IW as we knew it no longer exists. The question is how aligned the staff was with the creative seed-talent that left but also what pressures Activision puts on the studio.

But MW2 has serious problems;

No it doesn't.

No, what's stupid is to listen to say, one of those 13 people saying 'without us, the place we left is lost' and go 'well, if he says it to the media it must be true, there couldn't possibly be more to it than that!' Of course the 13 people are important, but those 13 people don't guarantee that Respawn will actually release a good or successful game.

He didn't say those things.

Also, I'm not downplaying their importance. MW2 was mostly them, true enough.

You are rolling waves of contradiction.

Again, you're talking about stuff you just don't know.

Your lazy and contradictory comments in conjunction with blaming everything else for these issues is the problem. Look, YOU couldn't even fact check the credits versus who left (something tangible) before throwing out loose cannon insults to people, and then go much further than what I even said with comments like, "I'm not downplaying their importance. MW2 was mostly them, true enough." Whoever said MW2 was mostly them. If I didn't know better I would say you were high while you were posting. Your post reads an epic "whatif... since I loathed a lot of elements and hope that key members who left were responsible for these and the good parts stayed."

So why not do us a favor, check the Credits, look at who left, and then give us some sensible comments on how this DOES / DOES NOT impact IW.

I already did that (see above) and all we get is circular rants and attacks on other people.

Bottom line: The people who seeded IW left. Many of the core group responsible for the following

a. the best selling game ever on an HD console
b. one of the best rated games this generation
c. a game with long legs in terms of post-release sales
d. most popular console game online

Left the company. We know who left (CONTRARY to your original point) and anyone who may know something about software knows these are important people.
 
Remember that Sony Santa Monica lost the lead designers / game directors after God of War 1, and again after God of War 2; this didn't stop each game in the series to become better than the previous one. The Gears team at Epic lost their art director between Gears 1 and Gears 2. Civilization 4 had neither Sid Meier nor Brian Reynolds on board, yet is widely considered the best in the series. When the self-proclaimed creative genius of id, John Romero, left, we got a few years of hot air and... Daikatana.

My friends who have worked with/under Steve Pearce, who was sent by Activision to manage what's left of Infinity Ward, have nothing but praises to say about him.

There are enough examples in the industry for both all possible outcomes, so please keep civility and respect to both studios. I personally look forward to games coming from either of them (and even to the other CoD games in progress at Activision).
 
Remember that Sony Santa Monica lost the lead designers / game directors after God of War 1, and again after God of War 2; this didn't stop each game in the series to become better than the previous one. The Gears team at Epic lost their art director between Gears 1 and Gears 2. Civilization 4 had neither Sid Meier nor Brian Reynolds on board, yet is widely considered the best in the series. When the self-proclaimed creative genius of id, John Romero, left, we got a few years of hot air and... Daikatana.

My friends who have worked with/under Steve Pearce, who was sent by Activision to manage what's left of Infinity Ward, have nothing but praises to say about him.

There are enough examples in the industry for both all possible outcomes, so please keep civility and respect to both studios. I personally look forward to games coming from either of them (and even to the other CoD games in progress at Activision).

Aye, even Blizzard has had quite a bit of turnover at the top and among staff for some of their top selling games. Diablo I and II for example. Many of the directors and programmers for Diablo I left and formed Flagship Studios (Hellgate: London). Diablo II still turned out well, but Hellgate was a bit of a mess at launch.

Regards,
SB
 
If Infinity Ward was a very tightly nit crew, then it's entirely possible that a large amount of people will defect over to Respawn en masse. I've been through one of those, we lost half the company in a matter of weeks and eventually folded. In this case it seems even more likely to have a mass defection because the people there are seriously pissed at Activision. At this point Activisions only hope is to give nice pay bumps to the key people that are left, those whose mere presence would keep groups of others to stay, that way they could still keep a semblance of IW together. Barring that I'd be surprised if the studio survived.
 
Knowing that they won't receive their bonuses? Or what?

Anyway, I've heard that Kotick has already announced that we're going to see 3 COD games in the next two years. So I guess, may the better one win...
 
They will receive their bonuses. Why wouldn't they? They worked through the bonus periods and are legally and contractually entitled to it.
 
Activision has stated a few days ago that only employees staying at the company are entitled to their bonuses... Although it's been mentioned in another forum that local law does not allow them to use it as leverage and everyone has to be paid.

The entire story is just a big pile of mess, really.
 
Wow, Activision is behaving as an awful corporation. What they are doing is very much against California State Law.

Here's my experience with this. I worked at a company based in Ohio but had acquired offices in Palo Alto, California and it was a huge mess when people in California left or the company let them go. The problems stemmed from the company not knowing California labor laws. They ended up getting in a lot of trouble for not having paid out everything owed to the ex-employees the very day they were let go or left.
 
Activision has stated a few days ago that only employees staying at the company are entitled to their bonuses... Although it's been mentioned in another forum that local law does not allow them to use it as leverage and everyone has to be paid.

The entire story is just a big pile of mess, really.

Did Activision state that, or is it just someone saying that Activision said it?

I can't imagine that Activision's lawyers are so ignorant of local laws and contracts that they would make such a statement.

Regards,
SB
 
Anyway, I've heard that Kotick has already announced that we're going to see 3 COD games in the next two years. So I guess, may the better one win...
Trying to repeat the success of guitar hero?
Though I believe this is also aimed at fouling the water for Respawn
 
Whatever Respawn does, it's almost certainly going to take at least two years, even if they just buy an engine. Starting from scratch means more like 3 or 4 years of development.

So Activision has a rather long window of opportunity to capitalize on the COD IP - or more accurately, run it into the ground like Guitar Hero?...
 
If they were smart Ild get the crysis3 engine, Im sure crytek would let them have it at a good rate due to the mana involved.
Yes I think they are trying to run it into the ground (grabbing the cash on the way), partly as a warning, you mess with us we'll screw with you. Did they mention these 3 titles in 2 years 'after' the guys left activision. Respawns first title has to be in a lot different setting to the COD games or else its gonna be like theyre 'rockband' i.e. The demise of guitar hero also destroyed rockband.
 
The ex-IW guys have very different priorities, 60fps is a must for them and I don't think any of the commercially available engines is really fit for that on consoles. Maybe id's engine for Rage, but the rest are more about features then speed and low control latency.

That is, if they want to do an FPS game next...
 
If they were smart Ild get the crysis3 engine, Im sure crytek would let them have it at a good rate due to the mana involved.
Yes I think they are trying to run it into the ground (grabbing the cash on the way), partly as a warning, you mess with us we'll screw with you. Did they mention these 3 titles in 2 years 'after' the guys left activision. Respawns first title has to be in a lot different setting to the COD games or else its gonna be like theyre 'rockband' i.e. The demise of guitar hero also destroyed rockband.

COD isn't to MOH what Rockband is to GH, so I doubt these guys are worried about that scenario. If anything these guys may be motivated to supplant COD with a new modern war based FPS, its not like they haven't done it before.
 
Remember that Sony Santa Monica lost the lead designers / game directors after God of War 1, and again after God of War 2; this didn't stop each game in the series to become better than the previous one. The Gears team at Epic lost their art director between Gears 1 and Gears 2. Civilization 4 had neither Sid Meier nor Brian Reynolds on board, yet is widely considered the best in the series. When the self-proclaimed creative genius of id, John Romero, left, we got a few years of hot air and... Daikatana.

My friends who have worked with/under Steve Pearce, who was sent by Activision to manage what's left of Infinity Ward, have nothing but praises to say about him.

There are enough examples in the industry for both all possible outcomes, so please keep civility and respect to both studios. I personally look forward to games coming from either of them (and even to the other CoD games in progress at Activision).

How many of those departures mirror the IW fiasco. Transitions happen all the time but not like whats happening at IW. I believe, more often then not, imploding development team usually leads to the implosion of the franchise.

Furthermore, 21 former and 17 current employees have filed an additional lawsuit against Activision over unpaid bonuses. Its hard for me to see that the COD franchise will come out of this unscathed. "As the World Turns" or "One Life to Live" doesn't offer this much drama as this is becoming a real life soap opera.
 
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