DOT3 Normal Mapping on the PS2

[Squeak]

Time for the bimonthly "bump mapping on PS2" thread I guess, but this time with some actual news(!): http://ps2dev.org/files/ps2_normalmapping.pdf
Any thoughts on this from PS2 programmers, about whether it’s realistic to implement in real games, and on how big the hit on overall performance is going to be?
I think I can see some potential for the per vertex normalized version to be cut down to one pass, but then I'm not a PS2 developer so that’s just speculation.

 

[version]

Time for the bimonthly "bump mapping on PS2" thread I guess, but this time with some actual news(!): http://ps2dev.org/files/ps2_normalmapping.pdf
Any thoughts on this from PS2 programmers, about whether it’s realistic to implement in real games, and on how big the hit on overall performance is going to be?
I think I can see some potential for the per vertex normalized version to be cut down to one pass, but then I'm not a PS2 developer so that’s just speculation.

in my old ps2's engine was normal map
max performance 20000 polygons/frame
game 1000-3000 polygon with normal ,and 100000-300000 with any
link: web.axelero.hu/varga1973/bump.zip

 

[Farid]

Since the paper comes from an IO interactive programmer, if this method is implementable in real world in game scenario, the next Hitman (Blood Money) and its Glacier engine would use it. If there's no BM to be found in Hitman: Blood Money, then we might consider that normal mapping is definitely not PS2's best friend.

BTW, the paper talks about the infamous 2 pass solution: A cheap two-pass solution without per-pixel normalization.
Now, that's indeed the "bimonthly "bump mapping on PS2" thread ".

 

[version]

my normalmap is 2 pass and with perpixel

 

[London Geezer]

Since the paper comes from an IO interactive programmer, if this method is implementable in real world in game scenario, the next Hitman (Blood Money) and its Glacier engine would use it. If there's no BM to be found in Hitman: Blood Money, then we might consider that normal mapping is definitely not PS2's best friend.

Do we need this to know that? I think that 4 years and an almost total absence of BM is enough...

 

[zurich]

Do we need this to know that? I think that 4 years and an almost total absence of BM is enough...

But I SWEAR I saw a bump mapped [INSERT HERE] in [INSERT GAME HERE]!!!

 

[darkblu]

my normalmap is 2 pass and with perpixel

per pixel noramlisation? how did you do it?

 

[London Geezer]

my normalmap is 2 pass and with perpixel

per pixel noramlisation? how did you do it?

On 1 polygon. At 30fps. Field rendered. Hey, that's proof!!!

 

[Simon F]

my normalmap is 2 pass and with perpixel

per pixel noramlisation? how did you do it?

Well... you could use point sampling... that'd do it

 

[Fafalada]

point sampling

*Smacks Simon with a large trout*
How dare you speak such foul language

 

[Tuttle]

It really is shame about the lack of bump mapping because we all know:

bump mapping == gameplay!

 

[Sonic]

This is a technical forum Tuttle. In the majority of cases gameplay discussion takes a back seat to technical discussion. It may be sad in some cases, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

 

[London Geezer]

It really is shame about the lack of bump mapping because we all know:

bump mapping == gameplay!

Why state the obvious? Did you not notice how much more playable Halo2 is compared to other games? It's all in da bumpz mappygn11!!1!!1!!

 

[version]

my normalmap is 2 pass and with perpixel

per pixel noramlisation? how did you do it?

On 1 polygon. At 30fps. Field rendered. Hey, that's proof!!!

no
speed is 5 rasterline with clearscreen

 

[darkblu]

my normalmap is 2 pass and with perpixel

per pixel noramlisation? how did you do it?

Well... you could use point sampling... that'd do it

will all due respect to your inventivneness, Simon, you'd still end up with a denormalised to-light vector ; )

 

[Tuttle]

Ok, honest question. What is the obession with bump mapping?

It's like people repeatedly trying to eat soup with a fork or a salad with spoon. One of the great lessons I got from working on the N64 was being put in the mindset of working with the hardware not against it while watching people go into fits over trying to shoehorn their games cinematic's into a four or eight meg cartridge.

 

[Fafalada]

It's called academic research The nice thing about it being that generally you don't need to care whether it cooperates with the hw or not, techdemos are still possible to make either way.

Plus you have to understand that great many engineers(myself included) suffer from varying degrees of 'mad scientist syndrome'.
We actually often enjoy doing things that are damn near impossible just for the hell of it (granted you can find things like that whether you work with or against the hw).

Eventually you learn by experience when it's good or not to go into the crazy mode.

 

[London Geezer]

Yawn.

Hey, the bi-monthly PS2 Bump Mapping thread just turned into the quarterly Ps2 Doesn't Need Bump Mapping Cause It's All About The Gameplay thread!!!

 

[Squeak]

Since the paper comes from an IO interactive programmer, if this method is implementable in real world in game scenario, the next Hitman (Blood Money) and its Glacier engine would use it. If there's no BM to be found in Hitman: Blood Money, then we might consider that normal mapping is definitely not PS2's best friend.

Or the research on the technique was finished to late in the development process, to be incorporated in the game.

my normalmap is 2 pass and with perpixel

Per pixel in two passes, you are kidding right?! I can't imagine how it could possibly be done.

 

[cthellis42]

Ok, honest question. What is the obession with bump mapping?

It's for people who like both bumps and maps. Separately they are just "great stuff" but together...! THEY ARE IRRESISTABLE!