Does Cell Have Any Other Advantages Over XCPU Other Than FLOPS?

[!eVo!-X Ant UK]

I disagree.

Why use Cell for decoding H.264, when you can just use a custom ASIC for a fraction of the cost and a fraction of the power consumption? Cell sure doesn't "rape" that processor for decoding H.264 if you take price/performance/power into consideration.

CELL is a console processor that happens to be good at other stuff. If you have to put one into your device, yay, you can use it for other things. But IMHO most devices don't need CELL to begin with.

Well if think of it like that then your correct

 

[seismologist]

I disagree.

Why use Cell for decoding H.264, when you can just use a custom ASIC for a fraction of the cost and a fraction of the power consumption? Cell sure doesn't "rape" that processor for decoding H.264 if you take price/performance/power into consideration.

Can those chips handle decoding multiple video streams?

 

[London Geezer]

I disagree.

Why use Cell for decoding H.264, when you can just use a custom ASIC for a fraction of the cost and a fraction of the power consumption? Cell sure doesn't "rape" that processor for decoding H.264 if you take price/performance/power into consideration.

Uhm i think the point here is that Cell WILL be in the PS3 so it can very well be used for those functions, not that another cheaper chip could do those functions just as well.

Cell is there, it's a fabulous media chip, and it will be used for some rather amazing things if Sony gets it right.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Cell is there, it's a fabulous media chip, and it will be used for some rather amazing things if Sony gets it right.

Like what exactly? Display my 10 non-existent HD feeds on the same screen? Assume I have an HD reciever, why would I want to view multiple (more than 2) channels simultaneously?

What are some real tangible benefits of CELL abilitiy to decode multiple HD video streams? Can anyone give a real example, not pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking, but a REAL example of how what this is going to do that will be so great???

I can't think of one thing that would honestly be useful.

It would be great if I used PS3 to re-encode all my video files...but that's what I do on my PC, what use is this muli-media processing for a GAME console? And again, realistic scenarios please, not blue-skying...

 

[!eVo!-X Ant UK]

What are some real tangible benefits of CELL abilitiy to decode multiple HD video streams? Can anyone give a real example, not pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking, but a REAL example of how what this is going to do that will be so great???

I can't think of one thing that would honestly be useful.

Maybe the dual video out-puts??? Kind of like Cell powered Sky-multi room.

 

[scificube]

10 preview windows on the tv guide screen?

Much faster encoding/decoding of movies?

Higher bitrate streamed movies?

Video chat with multiple persons?

Eye-Toy stuff?

I don't know...gotta get creative I guess.

Anyway...

I don't think that was the point of LB's post and if I'm wrong I apologize. I think he meant the purpose of Cell is NOT to decode/encode movies but to be a very powerful CPU in the PS3. Cell will be there in the PS3 so when the situation is right it can act as a good "media" chip as well. Again if I'm wrong LB I apologize.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Not to try and shoot down your ideas, but I'm just trying to sort out what 'multi-media' stuff CELL will realistically enable.

10 preview windows on the tv guide screen?
- Why would I want this though? It's not a user friendly interface. After the initial wow factor, it would only be cumbersome.

Much faster encoding/decoding of movies?
- when will the PS3 encode movies? And is cell really needed to decode single video streams? Won't a regular PPC do that just fine?

Higher bitrate streamed movies?
- bandwidth is the limiting factor here, not processing power, and a regular PPC has enough power to decod HD video. And again, with multiple hi-def streams BW is the main bottleneck.

Video chat with multiple persons?
- In hi-def? So every person has a high definition web camera? If not Hi-Def then any PPC could do it, doesn't need cell.

Eye-Toy stuff?
- K, but again what's CELL really bringing to the table that a regular PPC couldn't do? You're talking about fairly low res images coming from a web cam.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It would be great if I used PS3 to re-encode all my video files...but that's what I do on my PC, what use is this muli-media processing for a GAME console? And again, realistic scenarios please, not blue-skying...

Except PS3 isn't a games console. It's KK's latest attempt at an all-round computer for entertainment. If PS3 is to have available an OS that allows things your PC can already do, it'll be able to do stuff like encode videos for PSP 10x faster than your PC can, encode your CD audio tracks to MP3 10x faster, process your digital photo's 10x faster, do real-time 3D model mapping with image recognition like the toshiba demo (think go to Opticians for some new specs and get to try out different styles on a realtime scan of your face that updates as you turn) and goodness knows what other things.

I remember many years ago round a friend's house, who'd just shelled out on a 120MHz 486 DX4 with local bus. As we said at the time, what's the point in all that power? It's not needed for word-processing or paint programs or the applications of the time. If it weren't for the fact he raytraced for a hobby that power wouldn't have been touched most of the time. But nowadays a 120 MHz 486 DX4 hasn;t anything like the performance ot support the new applications that have developed. Know-one imagined there'd be digital audio and video compression onto portable devices and you'd put your DVD in the PC and wait an hour or so for it to rip onto memorystick.

If your argument 'why do we need faster processors; a PPC can already this' were valid (as I used to believe, as those who thought 3 computers were all the world would ever need beleived) then why do people buy faster processors? Why buy an AMD64 when a Barton already does the same job? Because people want to do stuff faster, and then as power increases they find new things to do that couldn't be done before on slower processors. So really realsitic scenarios aren't very possible. It's those Blue-Sky scenarios looking to the future and things we haven't even thought of doing yet where the difference is going to lie.

 

[pc999]

Why not seing 2 chanells at the same time while with sorrund sound in the CPU while the imge is treated to get even better, recording one of them (to the HDD) and use voice control instead of a remote, there is plenty of uses in a CELL beside gaming (and no, this will/would not be a total chaos, what we do everyday in a PC at the same time like Foruns, listen to music, encoding, download... could also look a chaos 15 years ago).

Plus it is supossed to came a HD camera with every PS3.

People in theese cases should think it the future not in the present.

 

[Edge]

Sony through repeated comments are clearly positioning PS3 as more than a game console, and the Eyetoy for PS3 shown at Sony's E3 presentation, was claimed to be a HD capable device.

With dual monitor support, and all those inputs/outputs, CELL will very well lend it self to many video/communication/encoding functions, that would blow away current computer setups.

I think Sony even wants something like Managed Copy of DVD films to be stored on the PS3 harddrive, that allows playback possibly over a home network, or even to a second TV, hookedup to the PS3, even while a game is being played.

PS3 is clearly in the position to be the core of anyone media center, being the "server" to games/movies/music for the whole family.

I can see a lot of Xbox 360 fans getting one in the end, after they get tired having a "game only" machine. Microsoft is not interested in making the Xbox 360 a multimedia hub/server/powerhouse, for fear of harming Windows OS sales.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Except PS3 isn't a games console. It's KK's latest attempt at an all-round computer for entertainment. If PS3 is to have available an OS that allows things your PC can already do, it'll be able to do stuff like encode videos for PSP 10x faster than your PC can, encode your CD audio tracks to MP3 10x faster, process your digital photo's 10x faster, do real-time 3D model mapping with image recognition like the toshiba demo (think go to Opticians for some new specs and get to try out different styles on a realtime scan of your face that updates as you turn) and goodness knows what other things. .

Sorry but this all compeltely far fetched shifty, this stuff just isn't going to happen. I'm looking for realistic scenarios here, I specifically asked NOT to blue-sky, but to give realworld achievable examples.

It's too easy to just throw stuff out there, but lets here real examples that mean something to me as a gamer.

Process images 10x/s faster? So instead of the 0.1 seconds it takes to resize a JPEG it wil now take 0.01seconds? Rip MP3's? Again it's BW limited from the DVD rom, not processing limited. realtime 3d face morphing? You honsetly thing SOny will develop this software and mass produce it? You honestly think they'll mass produce the HD-Quality camera that this would require? Come on now....this is the same company who barely managed to mass produce their HDD.

The transcoding video to PSP format extremely quickly is a great feature, I have no problem with that, as it's a realistic likely feature to be implemented that IS useful, I'm not here to shoot down realisitic ideas and that one sounds great. Any others?

 

[Edge]

> "but lets here real examples that mean something to me as a gamer."

You mean as a Xbox 360 gamer? LOL!

 

[scooby_dooby]

Sony through repeated comments are clearly positioning PS3 as more than a game console, and the Eyetoy for PS3 shown at Sony's E3 presentation, was claimed to be a HD capable device.

With dual monitor support, and all those inputs/outputs, CELL will very well lend it self to many video/communication/encoding functions, that would blow away current computer setups.

I think Sony even wants something like Managed Copy of DVD films to be stored on the PS3 harddrive, that allows playback possibly over a home network, or even to a second TV, hookedup to the PS3, even while a game is being played..

My only problem with this reasoning is that SOny writes shit software. I mean that's the truth.

I don't see them developing this amazing software packages to take advantage of the potential they have in the hardware.

Not to mention, current internet bandwidth limitations make much of what they claim impossible.

 

[scooby_dooby]

> "but lets here real examples that mean something to me as a gamer."

You mean as a Xbox 360 gamer? LOL!

As any gamer. Stop trying to steretype me and put my opinion in a neat little box, and maybe we can have a meaningful discussion.

I'm a GFX whore, I'll buy a PS3 if that's what it comes down to, I have no allegiance to corporations.

 

[scooby_dooby]

I can see a lot of Xbox 360 fans getting one in the end, after they get tired having a "game only" machine. Microsoft is not interested in making the Xbox 360 a multimedia hub/server/powerhouse, for fear of harming Windows OS sales.

Their doing a much more practical approach, leaving the PC as the multimedia hub, and using the 360 as 'extenders' throughout your house. Concievably you could have one PC, with 6 360's throughout the house acting as extenders.

That seems more in-line with the current consumers situation to me, don't you think?

 

[Edge]

Why use Cell for decoding H.264, when you can just use a custom ASIC for a fraction of the cost and a fraction of the power consumption? Cell sure doesn't "rape" that processor for decoding H.264 if you take price/performance/power into consideration.

Add an extra chip to the PS3 to do that? Why would they do that, when CELL can take care of the job, while doing a few other things at the same time.

 

[aaaaa00]

Add an extra chip to the PS3 to do that? Why would they do that, when CELL can take care of the job, while doing a few other things at the same time.

We're talking about applications other than PS3.

For a PS3 sure, if you have to put a CELL in it, might as well use it.

But if you're building another consumer electronics device, there's no question you can do the same job for a fraction of the cost and a fraction of the power consumption by going with custom ASICs instead of a fullblown CELL processor.

A well designed custom ASIC will always beat a more general CPU at the job it was specifically designed to do.

 

[ERP]

We're talking about applications other than PS3.

For a PS3 sure, if you have to put a CELL in it, might as well use it.

But if you're building another consumer electronics device, there's no question you can do the same job for a fraction of the cost and a fraction of the power consumption by going with custom ASICs instead of a fullblown CELL processor.

A well designed custom ASIC will always beat a more general CPU at the job it was specifically designed to do.

Interestingly this is exactly what the issue with the Nuon buiness model was. The idea was that you would get added value from the Nuon core and "free mpeg decoding". Unfortunately by the time they had it available, you could by an MPeg decoding ASIC for a fraction of their cost, they just couldn't compete in a market where cost became the driving factor.

 

[Edge]

We're talking about applications other than PS3.

For a PS3 sure, if you have to put a CELL in it, might as well use it.

But if you're building another consumer electronics device, there's no question you can do the same job for a fraction of the cost and a fraction of the power consumption by going with custom ASICs instead of a fullblown CELL processor.

A well designed custom ASIC will always beat a more general CPU at the job it was specifically designed to do.

I agree, but that's not really a topic for this CONSOLE forum.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

I agree, but that's not really topic for this CONSOLE forum.

Of course it is, since

Sony through repeated comments are clearly positioning PS3 as more than a game console...

Apparently, Sony is trying to compete with more than just game consoles...