DOA4 looking better?

[Nesh]

um, I doubt it. I'm sure it's just geometry. i doubt you'll see any game on the new consoles that uses any sort of muscle deformation system. it's a very computation intensive task, even for these new consoles.

Well my PSX could do it in a dinosaur tech demo.

And Lair brings some hope too

 

[ShootMyMonkey]

The characters are probably rigged with extra pull-up bones that are animated along with the others to try and get a sort of muscle-type effect. I seriously doubt they have any sort of genuine musculature system. It would anyway be over the top for a game where the action is too fast for you to really notice it.

Yep this game is CONFIRMED by blimblim to be running at 720p @ 60fps w/ 4xAA

Software or hardware AA? Just saying it has AA doesn't prove it's hardware AA. You can pass TRC spec for 4xAA simply by having some software AA and motionblur (each less than 4x equivalent). I believe it was mentioned at one point that the animations for all the characters are stored at a much higher framerate than the actual game plays.

On the one hand, I'd find it hard to believe that the fundamental slings and arrows associated with predicated tiling would have been solved just like that. On the other hand, it's a game that's basically got two characters onscreen, and it's not doing anything that special in its rendering, so it wouldn't really need to "solve" anything.

 

[Qroach]

http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/761/761161/vids_1.html It sure looks like it.

there's no muscle deformation going on in that video. it looks like regular skin weighting and a typical skeletal rig with multiple bones influencing the same area.

 

[Qroach]

Well my PSX could do it in a dinosaur tech demo.

And Lair brings some hope too

I had that demo on the PSX as well, and there certainly wasn't any underlying muscular system in that dinosaur. I fyou want an example of a muscle system look at the extra DVD, that comes with shrek, or the incredibles. Actually the hulk movie used something similar as well.

 

[mckmas8808]

Question for devs

there's no muscle deformation going on in that video. it looks like regular skin weighting and a typical skeletal rig with multiple bones influencing the same area.

Not to be acting like an ass, but how can you tell the difference between muscle deformation and some multiple bones thing?

 

[AlNom]

Software or hardware AA?

What do you mean by software AA?

 

[Bad_Boy]

I know im gonna get killed for this, but in the killzone vid, if you notice right after the beginning "clouds" entrance when the first guys face is zoomed out...when he is speaking you can see the muscles? in his face moving. Maybe a hint that the final game will have something like this? but take it as whatever you want.

 

[ERP]

I know im gonna get killed for this, but in the killzone vid, if you notice right after the beginning "clouds" entrance when the first guys face is zoomed out...when he is speaking you can see the muscles? in his face moving. Maybe a hint that the final game will have something like this? but take it as whatever you want.

If someone were to implement muscular deformation, which is fairly practical (especially in a fighting game), they would probably stick to large obvious muscles like biceps, since everywhere else it would be wasted.

The facial stuff is either morph targetbased or weighted bone based.

 

[ps2xboxcube]

IGN says:

Dead or Alive 4 is meant to be viewed and played in full high definition resolution. We got a chance to do just that for a few hours of play time and are sure about it: Team Ninja has created one of the Xbox 360's visual showpieces, comparable even to Sega's next generation of arcade fighters (see our hands on with Virtua Fighter 5 for more on that).

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/673/673778p1.html

 

[Qroach]

Not to be acting like an ass, but how can you tell the difference between muscle deformation and some multiple bones thing?

They look compeltely different from each other. Real time games don't do this in any way that is comparable to CG. There's a difference between sliding verticies as they are weighted between bones, and skin sliding over buldging/flexing muscles.

 

[Qroach]

I know im gonna get killed for this, but in the killzone vid, if you notice right after the beginning "clouds" entrance when the first guys face is zoomed out...when he is speaking you can see the muscles? in his face moving. Maybe a hint that the final game will have something like this? but take it as whatever you want.

Well for one, that was CG as I and others have already said. Much easier to simulate muscle groups with vertex animation (iin this case morph targets). I beleive ERP is correct.

 

[ShootMyMonkey]

What do you mean by software AA?

I mean rather than enabling AA on the hardware and implementing predicated tiling, they just use copies of the backbuffer to do various blending and/or multi-sampling on texture reads in the shader to get the effect of AA. Pretty much every 360 game so far (AFAICT) has done something to that effect (and thereby avoided tiling). For instance, motion blur inherently removes some jaggies, so it can be counted towards part of the "AA", even though it's not the same as enabling the AA on hardware.

 

[AlNom]

Ah... I see now. Thanks for the explanation.

Good question... I suppose they could fake the look of hardware AA. That's a huge cost in shader power, yes?

 

[ShootMyMonkey]

Not necassarily that huge... 3 or 4 texture samples per pixel blended and summed in the final pass where you render a screen-sized poly holding the backbuffer texture (although there may not be enough computational instructions to cover up the full latency of the reads all the time). But I guess the general idea is to trade off shader cost for the cost of tiling (and the time/money cost of having to figure out a good way to deal with it).