Do you think there will be a mid gen refresh console from Sony and Microsoft?

[Kaotik]

I think the following is the essential question. Is it possible that FSR3 only works on Xbox consoles and is it possible to solve 30-60FPS with FSR3? I'm asking this because if it's feasible, then MS doesn't need a pro console for that reason either.

I'm not expecting a wishful thinking answer.

I want proof of this answer.

No and no as was already said. FSR 3 works on any DX12 capable hardware, but it's only supported on DirectX 12 API which limits it to Xboxes and PC. If/when someone ports it to Vulkan or any other API that limitation is removed.

 

[Sonic]

That doesn't work in the price range consoles target as we don't see increases in processing power jump that much.

PS5 and Series-X represent the lowest performance jump between generations that we've ever seen from consoles.

And unless Sony or Microsoft are willing to sell consoles in the $700 bracket and use the price increase to get a larger GPU, longer generations won't really work.

You wanted proper generational leap defined. This is how it's previously been in the console space. It's not my fault ps4/one to ps5/series wasn't a proper generational leap. I accept those days are over.

 

[Seanspeed]

There are already multiple games with native 720p rendering, piss poor image quality and poor performance.

They offer GPU performance that's equivalent to a mid-range PC GPU from 2018.



Please see the above, they're already falling behind.



I see plenty.



The console not really having the performance for 'next gen' features is also a big factor.



This generation needs to used to get RT and next generation geometry ion to games engines and that's it.



Define 'proper generational leaps'

I've already explained how consoles dont 'fall behind' PC like that. That's not how it works from an industry standpoint since PC's are not the lead platform for the vast majority of AAA games. PC's could be 1000x faster, but if consoles are still where devs/pubs make most of their money due to the larger install bases, then those are what devs are building for first and foremost.

Image quality on consoles is also generally quite fine unless you insist on sticking with 60fps performance modes, in which case, yes, you have to make compromises on resolution. Just the nature of the beast and it seems most people are quite fine with this.

As for 'defining' next gen leaps, come on dude. We all know perfectly well what constitutes a generational leap unless you're only like 8 years old and XB1 was the first gaming system you've ever heard of. It means a large enough shift in the visuals and ambitions that can provide an undeniable 'wow' factor compared to what had previously existed, as perceived by pretty much any normal person/gamer(so not talking the typical Digital Foundry viewer here). These consoles are already delivering on this, and the best is undoubtedly yet to come.

If you only ever see this from a PC enthusiast perspective, then consoles are ALWAYS going to seem 'behind' and need to desperately be replaced as soon as possible to keep up. Seen from any other perspective though, it's quite reactionary and absurd.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Quoting this just to acknowledge and preserve the most fabulous typo ever, which are becoming rarer thanks to autocorrect.

That was voice-to-text and I have no idea what happened there!

 

[Silent_Buddha]

That was voice-to-text and I have no idea what happened there!

That's it then. You've been outed. Voice-to-text, eh? You're an alien, aren't you? Slipped up with your speaking!

Regards,
SB

 

[Deleted member 11852]

However x86 to ARM translation is really complicated even for generic OS's like Windows or MacOS, for highly platform targeted games like consoles it may be impossible for practical (profitable) purposes at this point. And I'd suspect backwards compatibility is going to be even more important going into "next gen". Thus I'd severely doubt any switch to ARM on the part of Sony or Microsoft.

I don't know how Windows is doing it but on macOS, Rosetta 2 (the translation software) has two modes; one is a 'realtime emulation' which exists to run 80x86/x64 code that isn't in a recognisable macOS application format, but most of the time Rosetta 2 is employing an ahead-of-time (AoT) pre-execution translation technique. The first time you run any 80x86/x64 code, it'll be slower than subsequent runs because the translation is cached. Apple obviously put hardware into their ARM chips to delivery good intel binary performance.

Any Xbox ARM solution would need to do a really good job of emulating the Xbox Series' 8c8T and 8c16HT models.

 

[Tkumpathenurpahl]

It might be that consoles start having more than one pool of RAM again.

But it would obviously depend on cost and design complexity Vs just increasing a single pool but it might be an option.

Especially as we now have a BVH which can consume 1GB+ depending on the game.

Being an HBM fanboy, that's pretty much what I'm hoping for. The need for stacking has always rendered it prohibitive vs GDDR but RDNA3's chiplet nature opens up the possibility IMO.

But I'm curious how this would manifest. I was thinking maybe 16GB GDDR7 @ 32gbps for 1024GB/s bandwidth coupled with a single, low capacity stack of HBM for BVH use? But at that point, is it just worthwhile to go all HBM?

But would that effect backwards compatibility? For Sony, anyway. I imagine MS are less likely to be impacted in that regard.

 

[techuse]

For PS5 Pro, I expect a 7700 XT adjacent GPU with a custom block for some type of higher quality reconstruction. I don't think we will see any significant changes to how RT is handled. Some small tweaks perhaps, but not specific cores to accelerate tracing as Nvidia and Intel do. On the CPU side, I expect a higher clocked version of the current Zen 2 CPU. I expect a bump to the GDDR speed. I don't expect any increase in the ram amount. I don't see any reason to improve the SSD. It's already overkill.

 

[QPlayer]

For PS5 Pro, I expect a 7700 XT adjacent GPU with a custom block for some type of higher quality reconstruction. I don't think we will see any significant changes to how RT is handled. Some small tweaks perhaps, but not specific cores to accelerate tracing as Nvidia and Intel do. On the CPU side, I expect a higher clocked version of the current Zen 2 CPU. I expect a bump to the GDDR speed. I don't expect any increase in the ram amount. I don't see any reason to improve the SSD. It's already overkill.

It's about zero... It's pointless, they'd better wait for the real nextgen

 

[pjbliverpool]

It's about zero... It's pointless, they'd better wait for the real nextgen

I'd agree with that. The GPU there is roughly 40% faster than the current PS5 so very little point building a prod model around that.

 

[iroboto]

For PS5 Pro, I expect a 7700 XT adjacent GPU with a custom block for some type of higher quality reconstruction. I don't think we will see any significant changes to how RT is handled. Some small tweaks perhaps, but not specific cores to accelerate tracing as Nvidia and Intel do. On the CPU side, I expect a higher clocked version of the current Zen 2 CPU. I expect a bump to the GDDR speed. I don't expect any increase in the ram amount. I don't see any reason to improve the SSD. It's already overkill.

so FSR3 with frame gen. And some hardware to make it a little more console efficient.

Big price to pay here.

 

[QPlayer]

Those who expect that the possible pro console will run the 30 FPS games of the basic model at 60 FPS, first think about how many resources are needed to jump from 30 to 60 FPS at the same image resolution. As far as I know, 3-4X (yes 300%) performance difference.

FSR3 also works with current consoles, or a similar feature can be developed.

Close the forum...

 

[Kaotik]

so FSR3 with frame gen. And some hardware to make it a little more console efficient.

Big price to pay here.

There's no reason the current FSR3 (with frame gen) couldn't run on PS5 except for the API support. If they port it for their API, nothing. There's no special hardware behind it.

 

[davis.anthony]

There's no reason the current FSR3 (with frame gen) couldn't run on PS5 except for the API support. If they port it for their API, nothing. There's no special hardware behind it.

A side from the fact AMD recommend a 60fps input minimum for it, so that puts the consoles out of luck.

 

[iroboto]

A side from the fact AMD recommend a 60fps input minimum for it, so that puts the consoles out of luck.

or, for those 60fps on console, maybe go to 120. But, seems a bit of a stretch.

There's no reason the current FSR3 (with frame gen) couldn't run on PS5 except for the API support. If they port it for their API, nothing. There's no special hardware behind it.

Agreed.

 

[arandomguy]

Wouldn't there be additional technical complications in terms of performance? At least my understanding was that FSR3 on the PC essentially "hides" a significant amount of overhead because GPUs on the PC don't achieve full utilization. While on the consoles I believe their likely achieving much higher utilization especially via heavier usage of async compute just for the conventional rendering pipeline.

As such it would not be as simple as just going straight from 60 fps -> 120 fps.

 

[techuse]

I'd agree with that. The GPU there is roughly 40% faster than the current PS5 so very little point building a prod model around that.

It’s 65%~ faster.

 

[Frenetic Pony]

PS: For those who missed it, PS5 PRo GPU is an RDNA3.5 7800xt with Upgraded RT; around double the speed of the current PS5 (remember to count IPC improvements) without counting the RT upgrades or any clock increase, good enough for the target audience I'm sure.

 

[Kaotik]

PS: For those who missed it, PS5 PRo GPU is an RDNA3.5 7800xt with Upgraded RT; around double the speed of the current PS5 (remember to count IPC improvements) without counting the RT upgrades or any clock increase, good enough for the target audience I'm sure.

So now RDNA 3.5 has turned from "RDNA 4 without RT updates" to "RDNA 3 with RT updates", what next? Seems like the silly season is in full swing for a change.

 

[arandomguy]

Did I miss something? Has there been a new credible leak or something?