Do you think there will be a mid gen refresh console from Sony and Microsoft?
- Thread starter invictis
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I don’t think anyone is concerned. But the PS3 era, they were trying to make silicon to replace x86. The ambition was much larger than just a home gaming console.The last time Sony was selling consoles with lost was ps3, people shouldnt be concerned with them losing money on it
The PS5 pro will just be a gaming console.
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Deleted member 11852
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And yet it's significantly more than the proportion of high-end GPUs in the PC market. I have two PCs, one with a 3080 and the other with a 4090 but apparently but I'm in an insignificant minority. The number of other people with those same cards (or 4080s or 3090s) is pretty much akin to a rounding error statistically speaking. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The reason Sony gave for the PS4 Pro was to reduce erosion of people moving to PCs mid-generation, because if that happens then Sony lose their cut on all games sold on a different platform. That's the only reason PS4 Pro existed.
Depends on how you look at it. As of January 2020, PS4 Pro was at 14.3 million (or 4.7 million a year since it's November 2016 release) if the leaks are to believed. In essence, PS4 Pro is (was) actually selling faster than Series X when launch aligned, since S makes up 60% of all Series sales. Meaning, as of today, Series X sales are around 10-11 million after three years (or 3.3-3.6 million a year since it's November 2020 release) .
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Well, no. you can't play GT7 with PSVR2 on PC.
Here you are right. They are litteraly encouraging people to go to the PC route and I believe they are starting to see the effects with their first party sales that are actually terrible compared to PS4 era. They say it's because of services only, but I think they are wrong.
At the moment.. There's rumors of GT7 coming to PC, and while I doubt they'll port the VR aspect to PC... they really should if they want to be taken seriously.
I believe Sony's primary reason for supporting PC is to cover the rising and exponential costs of their first-party games. For every new generation, I can see more and more cross-generational or BC titles becoming more important on allowing console unit sales to grow for supporting [later] native generation titles. The reason why we're going to see more prior generation titles during new console launches.
I'm not quite sure how you're working that out but Steam had 132m active users in Dec.
Are you suggesting that only 10% or less of those PC"s have more capable GPU's than the PS4 Pro? Because that would be way, way off base.
A quick and dirty count on my phone just now showed about 20% of PC's at the 2080S level or above, or around 26m PCs that range from slightly more capable than the PS5 to significantly more capable than the PS5. Or are we not counting "more powerful than the PS5" as high end for these purposes?
If we drop the criteria down to "in the same ballpark as the PS5", i.e. 2070 and upwards you can add around a further 14% to that figure or just under 45m PC's. Pretty comparable to the 50m PS5's sold by Sony by Dec 2023, particularly when you consider some of those will still be in the retail chain rather than in the hands of end users, and the 132m active user figure in Dec for Steam likely being only a portion (albeit a relatively high one) of the total active PC gamer user base.
They were selling 25% of Pros as soon as it was on the market and they could have sold more if they produced more as it was regularly supply constrained compared to the base mode. It was obviously a success for them. Them doing another is just another proof it was good for their business.
lol sure. I guess that also means Horizon etc.
Perhaps better stated is that PC has access to the large majority of VR titles (willing to think over 95%). There’s only a handful on PSVR that don’t exist on PC.
An additional consideration here was that 4Pro was the only way to access PSVR. It was novel and VR on PS was new.
That isn’t the case with PS5, they’ve not really supported it, there’s not been a killer title and I believe most people agree that Sony has silently dropped PSVR2 as well.
GhostofWar
Regular
pcvr has alot of options in the sim space, it's a great psvr2 game but a pc release is going to release into a landscape with alot more competition, it's an easy win when your the only one in the race. I am highly curious to see if Sony can manage to crack that egg, as a kind of casual sim player (I say casual because I play other genres when some of my friends don't, probably not if we go by money spent on hardware) I would prefer bloodborne and/or demon souls ports before GT7.
At which point, what is the price of this pro upgrade? $800? Unlike PS5 where Sony can price it with ongoing software sales, a Pro doesn't necessarily bring any more software revenue - anyone buying a Pro would likely already be buying a PS5 and buying content on that. Every PS5Pro sold to a PS5 upgrader likely won't increase the ongoing revenue per user, so Sony could just not bother with a Pro and keep selling PS5 stuff to those users.The last time Sony was selling consoles with lost was ps3, people shouldnt be concerned with them losing money on it
The purpose of my ramblings is to try to focus on what the machine might cost. If we assume no loss-leading, we can select hardware based on cost. But then we should also add, I believe, a healthy profit margin on top of that, unless it can be argued that's not necessary for the endeavour to be profitable.
Just for fun I just counted up the number of GPU's that are roughly at or above the expected capability of the PS5 Pro (3080/6800XT and above) and that comes to about 8.4% or over 11 million PC's. Obviously that number will be a good chunk higher by the time the Pro launches, particularly with the launch of the 4xxx Super series in the interim.
So if it took a little over 3 years for the PS4 Pro to hit 14m units, even if the PS5 Pro sells as well (which seems unlikely), its highly probable to be trailing the PC in unit terms at an equivalent or higher performance level.
Consider too that if the Pro launches in Sep this year then it's likely to be followed with a couple of months by the NV 5xxx series and AMD RDNA4.
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Deleted member 11852
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No, I'll repeat what I say. "And yet it's significantly more than the proportion of high-end GPUs in the PC market.", the 'it' being the 14m PS4 Pro consoles sold (of all 117m PS4/Pro consoles) and the proportion of PlayStation owners who opted for the highest tier console hardware between 2016 and 2020, noting PS4 launched in 2013 and Sony had sold almost 50m base PS4 by the time PS4 Pro launched.
People are either buying the best hardware their platform offers or they are not. Last gen that was PS4 Pro or One X. In the PC space, that's people buying the high-end cards. Consoles choices are binary, but it's easy to separate the wheat from the chaff in terms of what PC users are buying in terms of graphics hardware; according to the Steam Hardware Survey for December, the user statistics for the last couple of generations for Nvidia's high-end cards are:
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 - 2.17% (+0.02%)
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti - 0.81% (-0.01%)
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 - 0.58% (0.00%)
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4080 - 0.71% (+0.04%)
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 - 0.87% (-0.01%)
Compared to the budget options (x060, x070), that's small potatoes. Like PS4 Pro.
So you're talking about the percentage of PS4 Pro sales as a proportion of total Playstation sales of that generation vs the proportion of high end PC GPU's vs the total GPU market today? i.e. roughly 11% for PS4P vs 9% for the PC by your own definition of high end PC as 3080 or above. Granted the PS4 Pro percentage is a little higher (significantly higher is a bit of a stretch).
To be honest though I'm not really seeing the relevance of that comparison. The more relevant comparison is how many PC's of that level or above will be in the market once the PS5 Pro launches - or 3 years after the PS5 Pro has launched in line with the PS4 Pro 2020 comparison above. And it seems in that case the larger market will actually be high end PC's (defined here as at or above PS5 Pro level, so 3080 upwards) by a fairly significant margin.
Plus:
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070 - 1.52%
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070Ti - 1.12%
AMD 6800XT - 0.33%
AMD 7900XTX - 0.32%
AMD 6900XT - 0.23%
So about 8.6% in total (a little higher than my previous calculation). I'll wager it would get up to 9% if you include other GPU's that don't make the cut for the individual listings like the 3090Ti, 7900XT, and the various mobile GPU's in the 3080 desktop or above performance tier.
So 9% of 132m is 11.88m. Certainly far more than a rounding error, and that's at least 9 months and whole new high end GPU range launch (4xxx Super series) before the PS5 Pro launches. If it took PS4 Pro 3 years to hit 14m units then even if the PS5 Pro sells as well, do you really think there won't be more than 14m 3080 or above level PC's in the market by late 2027 if we're already at almost 12m today?
It was hardly the only reason. And dont forget they started putting their games on PC, so it was not as if they were really overly concerned with the whole console market switching to PC. They understood perfectly well there was always going to be a large enough natural divide.
Just as big a reason for the PS4 Pro was to push a '4k machine' to help them sell 4k TV's. At the time, there really wasn't a lot of reason to be excited about having a 4k TV since there was such little content for it. Kickstarting this with a console that could do, well, at least higher resolutions or reconstructed 4k I think provided a pretty good incentive for people to want to finally upgrade their old 1080p sets.
They were also hardly unaware of the deficiencies of the base PS4 and figured that even if they couldn't suddenly make every 30fps game into a 60fps one, they could definitely offer something that gave console users a tangibly better and more stable 30fps experience in a time where more people were caring about that kind of thing(probably in large part because of Digital Foundry's rise in popularity).
And lastly, they had PSVR to think about, where they knew the base PS4 was really only just barely cutting it for VR, so the Pro offered something that could more comfortably handle these titles without painful cuts to rendering resolution.
All for a very reasonable $400, remember.
So yea, it really wasn't all as simple as them just being afraid of console users abandoning ship to the PC market by any means.
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Deleted member 11852
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Right.
On this, because @Dictator thought think 14m was "incredibly low", yet it's a higher percentage of PC users buying top end graphics cards.
From your previous postings I know you're fixated on how console hardware equates to PC hardware performance, but I cannot see the relevance to the habits of console buyers. I've never seen any evidence that console buyers chose a console based on aiming to achieve some arbitrary roughly equivalent performance to a particular PC configuration. The choice available is either the cheapest specification or the most expensive.
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