I think if power consumption was significantly down they would have specified it. This is likely still 6nm node. The 1200 model chassis was clearly oversized.
Do you think there will be a mid gen refresh console from Sony and Microsoft?
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arandomguy
Veteran
I also don't think just looking at the console sale data by itself tells the whole story. Something we don't have real public data on is the software (and other revenue) attach rates for the PS4 Pro vs. the PS4. I suspect they likely have data that supports the idea that "prosumers" (or hardcore fans, or big spenders, or etc.) will buy the Pro console which in turn will spur more software sales and other revenue (eg. from those likely to say buy more expensive controllers as well). Also that I don't think people should underestimate how much more the "pro" crowd is actually willing (if not wanting) to spend on a faster console. Some people may not like the business model but it's not about just volume but targeting those with money and willing to spend, and well just see Apple for how well that works.
The Yen indexed against other major currencies has dropped 10% in the last 6 months. I think it's by far the worst performing currency among the G7 currently.
I guess the digital consoles have basically no real margin padding and would be facing the most actual cost pressures. They might also have spending data/projections that are pessimistic (as the Yen's performance is tied to overall Japanese economy, and spending there) in terms of attach rates to make up any loss.
Flappy Pannus
Veteran
Good point on the software attachment rate, but yes I agree - which is what I was addressing by referring to the old console model of one per gen as anachronistic compared to most consumer electronics. We're not talking 4090 prices, but there is room in the market for a range of tiers. There are definitely people who will pay something closer to PC hardware prices but still want to remain in the console ecosystem. Like I said, I think the barrier to this before was largely the software stack inhibiting the flexibility on the hardware to allow this. A $700+ PS5 Pro would get a lot of 'omg I can't believe they're doing this!' reactions, but it would probably end up selling more units than most high-end GPU's.
I'm not a high-end PC gamer by any stretch myself so not the best example, but even with just the 'regular' PS5, between it, controllers and the cost of PS+, I've probably spent more on it than I have on my PC the past few years.
Well sure, meaning no secondary price hikes. All regions outside the US already had one, so we're still 3 years into a console's lifecycle and now with the slim and the US finally getting its hike, virtually in every region the price has gone up since launch. That's pretty unprecedented but these are the times.
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Sorry, just realised you were talking about PSN prices. I read that as previous PS hardware hikes. My bad. Yeah, Sony are milking their dominance at the moment. Affordable midgen refresh seems implausible. Any such hardware will be an 'elite' product at an elite price.
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
I think it's hilarious that PS5 fans are advocating for more tiers after trashing the XSS so much. I wonder if there will be huge threads about how the PS5 is holding the PS5 Pro back due to lack of memory. LOL
Personally I would love a XSX Pro for $699 as well, but alas, it's not in the cards according to the rumor mill.
Personally I would love a XSX Pro for $699 as well, but alas, it's not in the cards according to the rumor mill.
I wonder if inflation is wiping out reductions in manufacturing cost that usually occur over the course of a generation. Would be sad if true. Sony not budging on price of the regular model doesn't bode well for a Pro model being $600. But again having observed market dynamics during the launch of current gen $700 isn't unreasonable. $800 is the upper limit I think either could go with and only for a limited time.
The other point that matters is what performance, especially in ray tracing, that a Pro machine will bring. If ps5 pro just gets console ray tracing at higher res and frame rate then it's not an easy sell for me. If the games had higher performance with PC ray tracing effects that would be a lot more tempting.
MS msy have shot themselves in the foot with XSS. Though it could be a blessing in disguse. Instead of a mid gen upgrade it would be awesome if they could do a mid gen XSS portable. It probably isn't feasible but I'd buy it day 1. Portable gaming on current gen that just works would be terrific.
The other point that matters is what performance, especially in ray tracing, that a Pro machine will bring. If ps5 pro just gets console ray tracing at higher res and frame rate then it's not an easy sell for me. If the games had higher performance with PC ray tracing effects that would be a lot more tempting.
MS msy have shot themselves in the foot with XSS. Though it could be a blessing in disguse. Instead of a mid gen upgrade it would be awesome if they could do a mid gen XSS portable. It probably isn't feasible but I'd buy it day 1. Portable gaming on current gen that just works would be terrific.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Inflation is sort of just a symptom of a lot of things that are happening globally (issues caused by the covid lockdown are still affecting global supply chains, companies attempting to pull out of China and the war in Ukraine are just a few examples) that are affecting supply chains and cost of manufacturing and distribution (shipping).
WRT consoles, node shrinks no longer bring cost reductions. Even factoring in the smaller size of a shink, moving down to a smaller node still ends up with a chip that is more expensive than it was on the larger node. So, you only really move to a smaller node if you need the energy savings or increased performance at the same energy cost ... and you are willing to pay the premium in order to have those things. Of course, if you can reduce the energy consumption, materials used for other parts of the console, reduce shipping weight and size, it may end up balancing out or saving you enough that you can keep selling your console at the same price.
Regards,
SB
Flappy Pannus
Veteran
Actually no, I was talking about hardware. Sony raised the price for most regions outside the US in the summer of last year (due to covid/currency valuations). Those raised prices still remain, the US with the slim is just no longer the exception. I'm just saying all regions now have had a price hike since the launch 3 years ago, which is definitely a new development. The PSN hike just makes it even worse.
Inuhanyou
Veteran
Good news to me. If they end up making a super slim at some point with even more reduced node, they can get even smaller. This already seems like good reduction without a node change
What's annoying is that this means a proper Slim model like this is probably a ways out still.
At that point, I'll have to see how many 1st party PS5 games are on PC...
Inuhanyou
Veteran
I'd be wondering how many PS5 games are out at all. Considering how messed up the gaas push seems to have hurt Sony's internal single player game development pipelineYea we'll see about that, I guess. At least Insomniac will probably have released like three more games by then, while everybody else has put out maybe one... lol
I’m sure this take sounded good before you wrote it down and decided to post but, it perhaps one of the worst takes regarding the Series S I’ve seen. People trashed the Series S because it was objectively a horrible product. Less memory than the 1x, worse GPU than the 1x, etc. if you release a “next-gen” console, it should be comprehensively better than the previous gen offerings in every category. Attempting to compare the series s to a potential ps5 pro is a false equivalency.
The major media opposition against the pro seems to be coming from two YouTube outlets. It’s quite hilarious to see the hypocrisy when voicing opposition against a pro machine. Keep in mind that both of these same outlets were evangelizing the series s due to exclusive access in the lead up to the series console launch.
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Idea behind the Series S was sound, they just skimped a bit too much. CPU+GPU is fine, but it really should have had 12GB of RAM and a 192-bit bus(for 336GB/s bandwidth).
Also, the XB1X was really a different sort of product. It was built pretty much exclusively for high resolution gaming and shouldn't be used as a base comparison point for a next gen system.
snc
Veteran
Hillarious that you dont see the difference of 4 years gap and that new model is more powerful and not less
Anecdotally, this has not been my experience.
I agree with your assessment on ram and bus width but, the GPU was not fine at all. At worst, it needed to be half the performance of the series x so 6tf. It couldn’t even run one X enhanced bc games because it was so weak. Like releasing a “next gen” console in 2020 with a worse GPU than the gtx 1660 was laughable.
Basis for comparison should be the original Xbox, not the XB1X which was, again, built specifically for the purpose of high resolution gaming. The Series S is basically the opposite of that, built for lower resolution gaming, so differences in general pixel-pushing power doesn't matter much.
More to the point, everything devs complain about with the Series S tends to come almost completely down to its memory setup. That's the problem. The GPU itself is ok so long you accept that it's more of a 1080p machine than a 1440p machine.
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