Do you think there will be a mid gen refresh console from Sony and Microsoft?

[Remij]

The first tweet is discussing expected RDNA 3+ Zen 5 laptop APU. The second tweet is about PS5 Pro.

Kind of important context missing there lol... but regardless, seems like it's just guesswork at this point. Any patents at this point could just as easily pertain to PS6 as they could a PS5 Pro.

But one would think that RT is one area where they could make meaningful improvements which would entice people to buy/upgrade.

 

[techuse]

If PS5 pro is a same price replacement at 500 it’s much less of a negative. Though it will likely extend the generation which sucks.

I don’t expect any major architectural changes to CPU or GPU. They will want to keep developer effort as low as possible.

 

[pjbliverpool]

No, Kepler was the well respected source. But even without and before his input it is obvious PS5 Pro goal is to improve RT performance significantly.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1665759888490758147

https://twitter.com/x/status/1682431723445927936

That's not a rumour, that's a guess. He specifically says it's a guess in the tweet. Not only that, but the guess says nothing about actual RDNA4 RT capability which we know absolutely nothing about at this stage. In order for the PS5 Pro to "easily surpass" the 7900XTX in RT then it's RT implementation would have to be significantly better than Ampere's given that in raster terms the PS5P is likely to be around 6800XT / 3080 level based on the number of CU's it's rumoured to feature, and the 3080 does not "easily surpass" the 7900XTX in RT workloads:

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If that is truly the "Slim", then lol -

PS5 "Diet's going well and no longer clinically obese, but a ways to go before beach-bod ready" version.

Aesthetically nothing to commend it IMO.

 

[JoeJ]

What an ugly POS.

If i had a PS5, i would build a shrine of wood, just to hide the most ugly console of all times from plain sight.
I really expected they would fix this eye sore for the slim, making it just a simple box. : (

Even that red 'VR' Nintendo looked much hotter.

 

[Seanspeed]

One way or another, traversal engine hardware will be in PS5 Pro. It is Cerny's next push. Could be AMD could be custom Sony HW. Could be collaboration between both.

US Patent Application for SYSTEM AND METHOD FOR ACCELERATED RAY TRACING Patent Application (Application #20220058854 issued February 24, 2022) - Justia Patents Search

A graphics processing unit (GPU) includes one or more processor cores adapted to execute a software-implemented shader program, and one or more hardware-implemented ray tracing units (RTU) adapted to traverse an acceleration structure to calculate intersections of rays with bounding volumes and...

patents.justia.com

We really shouldn't have to make it clear here that just cuz a company has a patent for something that it will end up as or in a real product.

Also, a lot of people here are caught up with the idea that this is a PS5 Slim. Nobody has ever said that's what it was called officially. People just kind of run with that cuz it's what they were expecting, but this is obviously not a proper Slim model, as I suspected it might not be. It's likely still using the same processor and all as before.

Lastly, there is no way that a PS5 Pro will be $500.

 

[Remij]

If i had a PS5, i would build a shrine of wood, just to hide the most ugly console of all times from plain sight.
I really expected they would fix this eye sore for the slim, making it just a simple box. : (

Even that red 'VR' Nintendo looked much hotter.

PS5 looks better with the custom side panels. If I owned one, I would be making it look like this or as close to this as possible.

But yes, if this new design is real (it is) then they've botched a perfectly good chance to right their wrongs of the past. They made it uglier and judging from the video, cheaper looking than the original. Such a shame.

 

[Karamazov]

well if they sell millions more than their main competitor and only a minority of people not interested in buying one in the first place complain about the design, that it's now part of the identity of their product, why would they radically change it ?
Now logical reason to do so.

 

[Remij]

well if they sell millions more than their main competitor and only a minority of people not interested in buying one in the first place complain about the design, that it's now part of the identity of their product, why would they radically change it ?
Now logical reason to do so.

Nothing says they have to.. I'm simply stating that I don't like the redesign either.

 

[JoeJ]

PS5 looks better with the custom side panels.

hmm... still looks like melt plastic.

I liked the design of the Mac G3. You remember, cheap transparent plastic, but a handle to lift it up at every corner.
It was great design because it had a function. It really was easy to carry those Macs around.

Design without function is always bad design.

 

[troyan]

Just compare the PS3 slim to the PS3 fat. That was a proper redesign and update. Dont know what Sony is doing but maybe they should step up their game again...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

People shouldn't expect PS5's slimming to match previous generations as tech shrink possibilities aren't the same. Even then, relatively PS4 slimmed 30% volume AFAICS. So with PS5 at apparently 7.2l, the same 30% reduction would be down to 5l, which is larger than original PS4 which was 4.5 litres.

There is no 'slim' option here.

 

[Seanspeed]

well if they sell millions more than their main competitor and only a minority of people not interested in buying one in the first place complain about the design, that it's now part of the identity of their product, why would they radically change it ?
Now logical reason to do so.

There should be plenty of talented designers that could manage to take some of the OG PS5's design DNA and have it influence a new design, while being a bit less garish and more practical. I cant believe this new one will still require a stand to use...

 

[Seanspeed]

People shouldn't expect PS5's slimming to match previous generations as tech shrink possibilities aren't the same. Even then, relatively PS4 slimmed 30% volume AFAICS. So with PS5 at apparently 7.2l, the same 30% reduction would be down to 5l, which is larger than original PS4 which was 4.5 litres.

There is no 'slim' option here.

Once you take the wings and stand and whatnot into account, I'd say the PS5's general bounding boxes do not at all represent any kind of 'minimum volume' that Sony could achieve with the PS5's specs. With a shrink to 5nm and then related shrinks for cooling, PSU, motherboard(with newer SSD that doesn't require 12 channels+chips), while using a more traditional case design, I'd say there's pretty sizeable scope for overall form factor shrinkage and perceptual slimming. Even coming close to the original PS4 size would be considered pretty dang 'slim'. The PS4 was generally considered a relatively small console to begin with.

 

[iroboto]

If it’s 7nm. The only thing slimmed was everything else I guess. Curious to see the tear down here.

If they couldn’t get the “slim” variant down below 7nm, that means the cost savings are not there yet and I have Low expectations on a pro variant arriving.

 

[I'mDudditz!]

That's not a rumour, that's a guess. He specifically says it's a guess in the tweet. Not only that, but the guess says nothing about actual RDNA4 RT capability which we know absolutely nothing about at this stage. In order for the PS5 Pro to "easily surpass" the 7900XTX in RT then it's RT implementation would have to be significantly better than Ampere's given that in raster terms the PS5P is likely to be around 6800XT / 3080 level based on the number of CU's it's rumoured to feature, and the 3080 does not "easily surpass" the 7900XTX in RT workloads:

Well firstly, your graphs contradict each other. 20fps vs 18.5 fps isn't a 24% performance delta. Secondly, we are talking about relative performance here, where your charts also reflect the impact of 7900xtx having ~2.5x vram as the 3080. In RT workloads specifically, the 3080 dominates 7900xtx. To be expected. And finally, PS5 Pro RT with hardware traversal engines on top of existing API advantages will decimate a 7900xtx in RT workloads.

 

[Sonic]

It's still an unknown whether the speculated upon ps5 pro would have improved RT with hardware traversal engines. I know that it's a popular idea because of this patent but we don't know if this will come into fruition. Just the same we don't know if the speculated upon ps5 pro won't have a multi-gpu setup based upon a different patent by Cerny. We can speculate that the multi-gpu patent intended for cloud gaming might work its way into speculated upon ps5 pro to provide the graphical performance uplift needed for a console. Maybe these hardware traversal engines will be part of the multi-gpu ps5 pro. We just don't know.

Now I do believe Sony are looking at ways to improve the performance of various aspects of graphics given their patents. I don't know if these are for an extender or a successor to the ps5 platform or if we'll ever see hardware based off them. But can we talk more about multi-gpu ps5 pro even if it is a pipe dream?

 

[cheapchips]

If they couldn’t get the “slim” variant down below 7nm, that means the cost savings are not there yet and I have Low expectations on a pro variant arriving.

This is the whole thing of transistors not really getting cheaper, even a chip density improves. Might as well stick with 7nm.

The Pro, if it happens, will be more expensive. They can go for more transistors on a smaller node, even if those transistors are the same cost as 7nm ones.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Well firstly, your graphs contradict each other. 20fps vs 18.5 fps isn't a 24% performance delta.

They're showing different sets of data. One is CP2077 and the other is average RT performance across a quite of games.

Secondly, we are talking about relative performance here, where your charts also reflect the impact of 7900xtx having ~2.5x vram as the 3080.

Lol performance does not scale linearly with VRAM size. And unless the 3080 is actually VRAM bound in any of the tested games then the additional VRAM of the 7900XTX won't be doing anything here. But even if it where solely responsible for equalizing the performance gap between those GPU's, the PS5 Pro will not have 24GB VRAM and so it will also be more constrained in that regard vs the 7900XTX.

In RT workloads specifically, the 3080 dominates 7900xtx.

If you mean path tracers which are heavily optimised for Nvidia then perhaps. But in regular RT games, it does not. Here's the link to the TPU 7900XTX review:

AMD Radeon RX 7900 XTX Review - Disrupting the GeForce RTX 4080

Navi 31 is here! The new $999 Radeon RX 7900 XTX in this review is AMD's new flagship card based on the wonderful chiplet technology that made the Ryzen Effect possible. In our testing we can confirm that the new RX 7900 XTX is indeed faster than the GeForce RTX 4080, but only with RT disabled.

www.techpowerup.com

Of the 8 RT games tested the 7900XTX beats the 3080 in every one. CP2077 is the best case scenario for the 3080 there. If developers do push RT on the PS5 Pro it's not going to be to Portal RTX or CP2077 Path Tracing levels. It will be to the normal PC levels of Ray Tracing that are currently unattainable for the existing consoles. And at those levels the 3080 is generally slower than the 7900XTX. It certainly doesnt "easily surpass it".

PS5 Pro RT with hardware traversal engines on top of existing API advantages will decimate a 7900xtx in RT workloads.

So we've moved from "easily surpass" to "decimate the 7900XTX" now have we? And your evidence for this is a leakers guess about an assumption mixed in with some Sony magic sauce of your own imagining?

 

[mpg1]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1690177223800877056