Do you think there will be a mid gen refresh console from Sony and Microsoft?

[vjPiedPiper]

Not so easy to just go ahead and double the CPU though!

Although given the recent DF testing of the XSX CPU, and his comments that the PS5 looked even worse.
Also partially due to PCIE limits, but i think it's fair to say the XSX CPU is ever so slightly faster than the PS5 one. ( higher clock, wider SIMD units )

I wonder what sort of zen4 CPU would be required to get 2x, or even 1.5x the PS5 CPU perf?
Of course console always have cutdown CPU's, so unlikely to just get a full zen4 either.

Using a single zen4 CCX @ 4+ Ghz, with 3D vCache, dedicated to the CPU, would probably mitigate the higher latency from GDDR somewhat.
Pretty $$ but perhaps a good way to improve console CPU perf.

 

[eastmen]

So the next gen Xbox also would not have guaranteed backwards compatibility with previous Xbox? Why? Why does that define next generation hardware? PS2 ran all original PlayStation 5 plays almost all PS4 games and Xbox Series all XBO games.

I'm not following.

in this weeks DF podcast/video cast they had stated that the reason presented to them on why the ps4 pro stayed with jaguar and just raised the clocks was a compatibility issue. They think that now that ps5 can run ps4 games that might not be an issue for them. However it could just be that 8core/16 thread zen 2 @ 3.5ghz is more than fast enough to over come whatever stopped them from running the same code as 8 jaguar cores @1.6ghz or 2.13ghz(pro) . I mean what would have been the other option in 2016 from amd ? a bulldozer derivative or moving to arm ? Perhaps either would have been to much to keep compatibility ? So it could be a moot point or whatever the issue is could still exist and a faster zen3/4/5 whatever might be enough to overcome what ever the issue is?

 

[Seanspeed]

in this weeks DF podcast/video cast they had stated that the reason presented to them on why the ps4 pro stayed with jaguar and just raised the clocks was a compatibility issue.

AMD didn't have anything new and suitable available, as far as I'm aware. I thought that was the whole reason they stuck with Jaguar. Technically 'Puma' existed, but this was basically just a renamed Jaguar core.

AMD had basically halted any meaningful CPU development outside of Ryzen in this period.

As you/DF say, the PS5 with a Ryzen processor can run PS4 games just fine. I dont see any reason why using Zen 4/5 would be some issue.

 

[Proelite]

At what power and price though?

Under 230 watt and under $700.

 

[Proelite]

3 shader engines. Each one 10WGP. 1 disabled. 54 active CUs in total.

2 shader engines disabled for PS4 BC. 1 shader engine disabled for PS4 Pro and PS5 BC.

54 CU x 2500mhz x 64 flops per clock per cu x 4 (dual issue accumulative) =~ 35 teraflops.

35 TF RDNA3 should be roughly equivalent to ~22 teraflops RDNA2.

So double the performance on paper but should be much better in RT workloads.

@snc Anything to add?

Apparently Kepler confirmed this the same day I posted.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1682769311377641473

 

[techuse]

Under 230 watt and under $700.

So not feasible for a console.

 

[Tkumpathenurpahl]

So not feasible for a console.

The PS5 draws ~200 watts. A 5nm die shrink would take that to ~140 watts. 1.5 times the number of CU's would take that somewhere near 210 watts.

So 52CU's at a variable 2.5 GHz seems pretty doable ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[techuse]

The PS5 draws ~200 watts. A 5nm die shrink would take that to ~140 watts. 1.5 times the number of CU's would take that somewhere near 210 watts.

So 52CU's at a variable 2.5 GHz seems pretty doable ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Power doesn’t scale linearly like that. Consoles can dedicate about 150ish watts to the GPU. Currently on RDNA 3 the 7600 sits at that power level. You would need to double its performance to roughly equal a 6950xt AMD will not be doubling the performance of a 7600 at 150 watts with the move to 3nm.

 

[Proelite]

Power doesn’t scale linearly like that. Consoles can dedicate about 150ish watts to the GPU. Currently on RDNA 3 the 7600 sits at that power level. You would need to double its performance to roughly equal a 6950xt AMD will not be doubling the performance of a 7600 at 150 watts with the move to 3nm.

Do you realize that 165 watts for the 7600 is for the total board power for peak clocks? If you look at the RX 6000 series, a GPU comparable to the Series X is related at 230W, which is higher than the total TDP of the console.

With a node shrink from N5 to N4E, I think something like the 7900 GRE would be doable at sub 200 watts TBP in a desktop GPU. That would mean that it'll be possible to put that into a 200 watt console.

 

[function]

Do you realize that 165 watts for the 7600 is for the total board power for peak clocks?

In 20ms intervals it's actually somewhat higher than that. Peak power spikes for AMD are fucked. Power management is both too slow to react and also too reactive when it does.

 

[techuse]

Do you realize that 165 watts for the 7600 is for the total board power for peak clocks? If you look at the RX 6000 series, a GPU comparable to the Series X is related at 230W, which is higher than the total TDP of the console.

With a node shrink from N5 to N4E, I think something like the 7900 GRE would be doable at sub 200 watts TBP in a desktop GPU. That would mean that it'll be possible to put that into a 200 watt console.

Which 230 watt GPU are you referring to? A 6700xt is well beyond the GPU in Series X.

 

[Proelite]

Which 230 watt GPU are you referring to? A 6700xt is well beyond the GPU in Series X.

You're right. There isn't really a good analogous 6000 series GPU to the Series X.

The closest GPU to the PS5 is the 6700 and that's rated at 175 watt.

 

[Proelite]

Power doesn’t scale linearly like that. Consoles can dedicate about 150ish watts to the GPU. Currently on RDNA 3 the 7600 sits at that power level. You would need to double its performance to roughly equal a 6950xt AMD will not be doubling the performance of a 7600 at 150 watts with the move to 3nm.

I think the hope is that with some RDNA4 features, optimizing for dual-issue, and some extra console tweaks, the PS5 Pro can match the 6900XT in non-RT workloads and comfortably exceed it in RT workloads.

 

[Below2D]

Which 230 watt GPU are you referring to? A 6700xt is well beyond the GPU in Series X.

Is it? As far as I’m aware, the 6700 XT doesn’t typically beat the consoles by a wide margin.

 

[techuse]

Is it? As far as I’m aware, the 6700 XT doesn’t typically beat the consoles by a wide margin.

6700xt is around 2080ti level.

 

[Below2D]

6700xt is around 2080ti level.

It's around 3060 Ti level and that's at 1440p. RDNA2 doesn't scale well at 4K.

It’s generally what? 15% faster than the consoles’ GPUs?

 

[Seanspeed]

New rumor:

[RUMOR] New PS5 '2000' is about 5cm shorter, not much thinner than the launch model

Posted by Angie on the PS thread. I think there are still a lot of people believing that it will be a completely different model from the original PS5, despite Tom Henderson having already said that it would be extremely similar. It's probably way for Sony to reduce manufacturing costs going...

www.resetera.com

It would be in line with my suspicion that this isn't a proper Slim model, with no actual die shrink or anything. Just an evolution of the original PS5, but with same core hardware.

If so, I'll continue to wait for a proper Slim model down the line before I consider getting a PS5.

 

[Globalisateur]

The PS5 draws ~200 watts. A 5nm die shrink would take that to ~140 watts. 1.5 times the number of CU's would take that somewhere near 210 watts.

So 52CU's at a variable 2.5 GHz seems pretty doable ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Max is ~230W

 

[QPlayer]

I think twice the performance compared to current console hardware is not enough to make a spectacular difference at the console level. RT? If they wanted a pro console because of Ray-tracing, that alone cannot mass sell that new console. Ray-tracing does not make a significant visual difference in every game compared to the traditional cubemap technique.

I think it's totally pointless. Considering that the Xbox Series and PS5 consoles are only just starting to really take advantage of SSD I/O performance. In addition, using UE5's TSR, you can achieve pretty good visuals with current consoles.

 

[SmooTh]

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