Do you think there will be a mid gen refresh console from Sony and Microsoft?

[cwjs]

With more and more previously console-exclusive games making their way to PC, I’d argue the PC becomes the mid-gen refresh. Devs can allow for higher refresh and res with minimal effort and can add extra RT if they want to put in extra effort (possibly with an eye toward their next title). What’s cheaper for Sony: designing and stocking an extra SKU, or letting Steam take their cut?

Designing and stocking the sku surely? 30% is not insignificant, and for most sales on pc (games not made by first party developers) they get 100% less -- any ps5 owner buying madden on pc instead of ps5pro or whatever is an enormous failure. I'm not sure really expecting mid gen refreshes this time (covid, supply chain issues, etc) but I don't think sony is casually happy to let games sell on PC instead of their consoles.

 

[Pete]

Designing and stocking the sku surely? 30% is not insignificant, and for most sales on pc (games not made by first party developers) they get 100% less -- any ps5 owner buying madden on pc instead of ps5pro or whatever is an enormous failure. I'm not sure really expecting mid gen refreshes this time (covid, supply chain issues, etc) but I don't think sony is casually happy to let games sell on PC instead of their consoles.

I was thinking about their vaunted first party lineup which would net them ~80% on Steam/Epic (vs. 100% on PSN but less if you include physical), which is their main hook into their ecosystem (alongside “all your friends are here”). God of War and Horizon each have 65k reviews, which is more than I expected, but I’m not thinking in terms of PS5 + PC owners debating which platform to buy a game on. I’m wondering how many PC gamers would consider buying a new console over a PC upgrade to play a Sony exclusive, and how much Sony is willing to pay to get them.

I haven’t thought about how a console positions Sony to get new gamers or how hardware specs factor into console platform purchases, but would a brand new (to Sony exclusives or to everything) gamer opt for a higher-cost Pro model or enter with a base model (even an XSS)?

Maybe when Sony switches to their modular optical design they’ll consider the PS5 a $400 machine and a $100 premium sufficient for a Pro model.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Pete's reply is exactly the reason Sony gave for needing PS4 Pro - to stop PS player migrating to PC!

That was of course before they started putting games on PC already partially harming the appeal of owning a PS5. But other people will fill that gap and will continue to I think without a pro version

 

[Seanspeed]

Consoles continue to be the best value in gaming, when you consider the price point to get in. But everything else is more costly over time. You have to game a lot to make up the cost of PC hardware.

PC gamers dont need to game more to 'make up' the cost of the hardware, they simply need to be sufficiently 'more' happy with the experience they get when they do play. But that has gotten much harder lately, as prices have increased and the actual gap to the console experience(especially in these early gen years) has decreased.

PC will certainly be a much less attractive option than it was last gen for those wanting an upgrade on the base XSX/PS5 experience. It was a real threat last go around, when you could build an $800 PC that could already run console games at equivalent or better settings with double the framerate even fairly early in the generation. Nvidia and to a lesser extent AMD have ensured that Microsoft and Sony really dont need to worry about that too much this time.

And lastly, the PS5/XSX are better equipped this time around. Any $400-500 fixed spec device will have hard limitations, but these new consoles aren't gonna feel quite as limiting as last gen. Y'all massively overestimate how much even PC gamers care about something like ray tracing, let alone console gamers.

 

[iroboto]

PC gamers dont need to game more to 'make up' the cost of the hardware, they simply need to be sufficiently 'more' happy with the experience they get when they do play. But that has gotten much harder lately, as prices have increased and the actual gap to the console experience(especially in these early gen years) has decreased.

PC will certainly be a much less attractive option than it was last gen for those wanting an upgrade on the base XSX/PS5 experience. It was a real threat last go around, when you could build an $800 PC that could already run console games at equivalent or better settings with double the framerate even fairly early in the generation. Nvidia and to a lesser extent AMD have ensured that Microsoft and Sony really dont need to worry about that too much this time.

And lastly, the PS5/XSX are better equipped this time around. Any $400-500 fixed spec device will have hard limitations, but these new consoles aren't gonna feel quite as limiting as last gen. Y'all massively overestimate how much even PC gamers care about something like ray tracing, let alone console gamers.

Sure. That’s a better way to put it. But consoles are pretty streamlined experiences. They take most of the hardest parts of gaming out of the way.

But with PC, a bit like enjoying the whole PC experience with building and tweaking etc. I can understand that as well

 

[chris1515]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1635602559049031683

 

[Flappy Pannus]

EXCLUSIVE – PS5 PRO IN DEVELOPMENT, COULD RELEASE LATE 2024​

As for what the PS5 specs will entail, details are limited. However, a recently-published patent by PlayStation architect Mark Cerny (spotted by @Onion00048) suggests that Sony Interactive Entertainment is looking to “accelerate” ray tracing performance in video games.

Just like with the PS4 to the PS4 Pro, we can generally guess pretty confidently that the PS5 Pro will have increased visuals, performance, and speeds. But as for leaked details, we’ll have to wait until a later date to release those.

Insider Gaming understands that the next generation of the PlayStation, the PS6, is unlikely to release until at least 2028. This would put the current generation console release schedule in line with its predecessors.

This is apparently the guy who leaked the PS5 with detachable disk drive to be released later this year, that was considered to be the basis of the 'Pro' rumours but he states this is a separate model. Who knows of course, late 2024 is a ways away. If the PS6 is not to be released until 2028 though this makes some sense.

 

[iroboto]

makes sense.
I would probably do that. MS can't afford to make a 3rd SKU. It's just going to complicate things further.

 

[Karamazov]

Series S and One X will just fuze with Series X to give birth to Super Series X

 

[Flappy Pannus]

makes sense.
I would probably do that. MS can't afford to make a 3rd SKU. It's just going to complicate things further.

Not sure about that, if you're speaking from developers perspective the big barrier to S ports that devs have to plan around is the reduced ram. If the XX has the same base ram as the X but just slightly higher CPU + faster (much?) GPU, it's easier to accommodate. Just bump up RT/res/framerate caps. I think that's the direction these pro consoles will take if they appear, even if they have increased ram due to a larger bus width, it's easier to manage the higher the starting point is, especially as the base consoles will still be the target. The problem with the S is that the amount of allocated ram to devs was actually less than the previous-gen One X, while asking it to accommodate far more demanding games.

If you mean from consumers, depends on what MS does to the S. A discless X might be able to replace it in the stack, but even for 2024/early 2025 that's a tall order to get it down to $299. Whether it's necessary or not I have no idea, it was far more necessary with the One X due to its significant differential compared to the PS4. I don't know the sales figures of the Pro/One X, at least with the Pro I gathered it was always a significant minority of sales but I don't know the numbers.

 

[function]

makes sense.
I would probably do that. MS can't afford to make a 3rd SKU. It's just going to complicate things further.

Mebbe MS would be better of releasing an X2 and an S2 at ~end of 2025 or 2026 (timing allowing)?

MS seem more able to abstract from the hardware and support more configurations - if at a cost - as they currently do with PC/SS/SX. Rolling generations and all that.

New, more efficient architecture, and boost clocks like Sony / PC (fixed clocks might have benefits, but at this point deterministic boosting would seem to have more).

Also memory could be addressed. Series S has a little too little, and it's clamshelled across two of the 16-bit channels, while SX has plenty but the bus is wide for the quantity so it's a less than ideal way to get extra bandwidth.

 

[BRiT]

I don't see the PS5 Pro happening next year (2024), because there isn't enough of a jump to be able to double up on the PS5 performance while remaining within the same power constraints.

 

[Globalisateur]

I don't see the PS5 Pro happening next year (2024), because there isn't enough of a jump to be able to double up on the PS5 performance while remaining within the same power constraints.

Sony don't pay people's electricity bills. Besides with 5nm (or even 4nm) they could be able to do that and stay under 230W (which is the current max on PS5 based on several games).

 

[snc]

I don't see the PS5 Pro happening next year (2024), because there isn't enough of a jump to be able to double up on the PS5 performance while remaining within the same power constraints.

in late 2024 rdna4 is possible, also pro version could have higher power constraints

 

[BRiT]

Sony don't pay people's electricity bills.

Not even if you're on their Sony PlayStation Stars top tier?

 

[BRiT]

in late 2024 rdna4 is possible, also pro version could have higher power constraints

That wouldn't be like the PS4 to 4Pro, which is what I think they would try to repeat again. Switching GPU architecture would be more substantial, like closer to a rolling generation.

 

[snc]

That wouldn't be like the PS4 to 4Pro, which is what I think they would try to repeat again. Switching GPU architecture would be more substantial, like closer to a rolling generation.

Quite similar, ps4pro had latest amd feature like double rate FP16 math support that was introduced only later in 2017 vega arch., max power consumption was higher than base model (not much, 10W according to df article, but still). Also we have to remember ps4pro was released only 3 years after base model, here we talk about 4 years.

 

[milk]

Sony don't pay people's electricity bills. Besides with 5nm (or even 4nm) they could be able to do that and stay under 230W (which is the current max on PS5 based on several games).

Aren't there EU regulations that limit the max power draw for gaming consoles?

 

[Inuhanyou]

Sony don't pay people's electricity bills. Besides with 5nm (or even 4nm) they could be able to do that and stay under 230W (which is the current max on PS5 based on several games).

I am honestly more interested in what the base PS5 would look like if the detachable disc drive sku comes to pass with 4nm. I wanna see it shrink nice and efficiently

 

[assurdum]

EXCLUSIVE – PS5 PRO IN DEVELOPMENT, COULD RELEASE LATE 2024​

This is apparently the guy who leaked the PS5 with detachable disk drive to be released later this year, that was considered to be the basis of the 'Pro' rumours but he states this is a separate model. Who knows of course, late 2024 is a ways away. If the PS6 is not to be released until 2028 though this makes some sense.

I don't get it. The same source said to never heard anything about a ps5 pro when he talked about the new ps5 base sku, now even a rumours about a 2024 release? I knew he is reliable but what a strange take after his different first thoughts.