If you really wanted the best then you would stick to the PC where this game will be looking the best and you have the option of Force Feedback controllers.
DIRT: Colin McRae Off-Road
- Thread starter Bad_Boy
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If you really wanted the best then you would stick to the PC where this game will be looking the best and you have the option of Force Feedback controllers.
Well, you're exaggerating somewhat. First of all it's doubtful that the game will look best on the PC unless you have unlimited cash to spend, because let's not forget the PC will have to compensate for being able to program for the specific PS3 hardware (including Cell and a very good bandwidth setup), and second of all the PS3 version of the game will surely still support Logitech Force Feedback wheels, as Logitech has their own agreements with Immersion (even own stock, like Microsoft) and the Force Feedback driver will be included with and loaded by the game, not the PS3 Firmware, just as GT:HD will still support the Logitech wheels, and no doubt F1 too.
I'm not saying that eventually you may be able to play this game with some better graphics and sound and controls on the PC, but it may take a while before you can do so at reasonable cost.
What?
The PC will have to run the PC code. It doesn't give a flying flip about the PS3 code, and believe it or not, this MULTIPLATFORM game will NOT be coded especially for PS3 hardware. The PS3 version will be tailored to that system to a degree, but the game i9tself is made to run on the PC, 360 and PS3, all pretty much equally.
Got proof? Or is this just an assumption you are making?
If cost were an issue then you would be asking yourself if the PS3 version will look and play $200 worth of better than the 360 version.
mckmas8808
Legend
So do you think that Neon consists of a Direct3D type layer with a game engine on top, or could it possibly contain a lot of custom tweaked Cell and RSX specific code that supports the features required by the game engine?
While I grant it is not the only issue for not looking forward to a PC version (I can't count the amount of times I wanted to throw the PC out of the Window back when I was still reviewing PC games, among which, by the way, the previous Colin McRae), there are other things going on here.
You think PD would show off GT:HD with the Logitech Driving Force Pro wheel at TGS if they couldn't actually support that wheel in the final version? Heck, from the looks of it (in the PD studio) they are already working on G25 support. The Driving Force Pro was even developed by PD and Logitech together. For me, the following quote (on TouchSense) confirms the third party licence structure as it works on Sony machines:
Victor said:
Obviously, with GT4 and Logitech having formed a very profitable partnership and the DFPro wheel being very popular for the PS2 and going back many, many years (lots of driving games supported FF wheels), Sony isn't going to have a third party strategy that restricts Force Feedback in wheels. And considering their history, they aren't even likely to consider 3rd party Rumble controllers - the problem of Sony's decision not to include and licence rumble themselves is that the companies are going to have to make agreements with Immersion individually and the incentive to do so will be much lower considering the default controllers won't support them.
Ok, let's play that imaginary game, and assume that the following currently unknown conditions are met:
- I would not want a harddrive in my 360 and would therefore also not value the 20Gb harddrive in the PS3 (ridiculous assumption, sorry, but it's a necessary requirement for you to be able to consider the 360 $200 cheaper than the PS3)
- I would be able to use my current Driving Force Pro on the 360 (possible, but Microsoft has its own wheel and they've been stupid about this before, partly because as far as I know exotic drivers aren't accepted and hardware drivers have to be built into the 360's version of DirectX)
- Colin McRae was the only game I was interested in getting and I didn't want a PS3 for any other reason (exclusive games that appeal to me a lot, Linux, Browser, Sixaxis, Quietness, PSP linkage, backward compatibility including stuff like Singstar Mikes, BluRay, HDMI, and being able to actually store all types of media files on the PS3's harddrive, to name but a few things I'm interested in)
So, let's say that all these conditions are met, then, yes, I could consider whether or not any graphical differences, should they even be in favor of the PS3 (I'm hopeful of that, at least) outweigh the price difference between a Core 360 and a Core PS3. If all these conditions are met, then yes, if the graphical differences are minimal, I might opt for the 360 version. Then again, if Colin were that important to me, if there was a reasonable graphical advantage to the PS3 version, I might be willing to pay a little extra for it, just as I was ready to buy a DF Pro just for GT4, or a DDRMax dance pad for Dancing Stage / DDR, or a GunCon for Time Crisis, or Microphones for Singstar, or an EyeToy, or ...
If Microsoft gets their act together (sounds funny huh, to think that someone in this day and age still thinks that it is Microsoft rather than Sony who need to get their act together) and makes sure that FF support becomes half-decent, and they're not going to pursue this ugly route of trying to exclusively own the 360 peripheral market and be a little more open to third party hardware drivers in that respect (this was part of the reason why Logitech wheels were never supported on Xbox1, which was my biggest disappointment because it did have some decent racing games that I'd have liked a lot more with a decent FF wheel), then it is very likely that, like last generation, I will have an Xbox 360 as well as a PS3.
But until those things are cleared up, I'm going to sit back and wait. For now, I am again disappointed in that the Force Feedback wheel for the 360 is coming so slowly to market, in a pointless, cheap battery driven wireless version to boot (the pedals alone ... no stick ...
), and the only good thing so far is that it comes with an update to finally make PGR3 have FF support. But what I'm waiting for is something like being able to plug in my Logitech wheel. I can use that wheel on the PC just fine, and have been doing so for some great games (and F12k/F1C mods - the DTM mod in particular had the best FF ever).I picked up a (second) DF Pro for 50 euro half a year ago. If Forza 2 supports that, then by virtue of that alone, Microsoft might have a sale and become my second console, or even my first should Sony and PD leave me waiting (I'm in Europe) too long. If MS is going to force me to buy specific controllers for the 360 that are not compatible with other systems, then I don't think they'll be able to count me as a customer real soon.
two thumbs up (with the usual dose of salt and bullshots scepticism).
knowing how polyphony cannot do dirt driving, while at the same time codemasters are pretty good at it, and with looks like, or close to, those, i can easily see this title on my shelf next to gt5.
ps: the only title that i've seen so far doing well both road and dirt handling is enthusia. and i truly would not mind one bit seeing a port of it on the wii - if for no other reason but improved looks - the original ps2 one looked sub-par. else i'm stuck with driving on the ps2 for the next 1.5-2 years. unless forza2 really impresses me, that is.
knowing how polyphony cannot do dirt driving, while at the same time codemasters are pretty good at it, and with looks like, or close to, those, i can easily see this title on my shelf next to gt5.
ps: the only title that i've seen so far doing well both road and dirt handling is enthusia. and i truly would not mind one bit seeing a port of it on the wii - if for no other reason but improved looks - the original ps2 one looked sub-par. else i'm stuck with driving on the ps2 for the next 1.5-2 years. unless forza2 really impresses me, that is.
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i think you're a bit harsh on them - what codemasters usually do is release shots from their most graphically-advanced version (usually the pc one). but we're safe from that here as i don't expect their pc version to look any better than the ps3 one. so i don't expect much more bullshoting than impossible AA (already in place from the shots downsampling) and the usual gamma corrections in photoshop.
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Or the x360 version I'm sure you meant to add...
Nah its not harsh. The shots they release much like PGR and GT are replay high res shots... not usually indicative of what you get ingame.
Considering Neon runs in D3D in both the PC and 360 versions, you tell me.
I am saying just because PD does it doesn't mean everyone will.
As you said, the Driving Force Pro was developed by PD and Logitech together, so there is a good reason for PD to support it. However, the same is not true for Codemasters, is it?
You got proof that Codemasters is supporting the wheel too? Or is it just an assumtion you are making?
I think that bolded part goes along with my above question about Codemasters supporting Force Feedback, doesn't it?
Let's play a different imaginary game.
Let's pretend that you aren't a Sony fan and against owning a MS console. It's a stretch, but let's pretend anyways.
Now, you see a core 360 running DIRT for about $360 for the console and game combined.
Right next to it you see a PS3 running DIRT for a minimum of $560 for game and console combined.
Do you think that PS3 version of DIRT will look so much better as to justify that added expense all by itself?
If you are going to start throwing in all of this "well, the PS3 has this extra feature" bullcrap then be fair about it and start listing all of the PC functions and features that a PS3 cannot do too. After all, if it's a price vs. feature comparison of the hardware that you want to make and just forget about the game, I'm pretty sure I can justify the added cost of a PC in added functionality just as easily as you can justify the added cost of the PS3 over a 360 for the same reasons.
Funny that you say that. My dream is having a Colin McRae game with the handling (and FF support) of GT4's rally, which imho is incredible.
incredibly fun - yes, incredibly realistic - i don't think so. my impressions of GT's dirt handling is that it is not much more than an improved-traction version of their handling on ice, which is not exactly what you get on dirt - dirt is extremely traction-volatile (you get all kind of surfaces varying from wet mud to dry mud to rubble to grass), whereas ice/snow is just slippery all across. of the sims i've driven only enthusia has been able to recreate this feeling of traction volatility for me. but codemasters are also trying real hard with this. GT4 sits somewhere on par with sega rally series for me - it's much fun, not little part due to the great feedback, but the sense of car floating is way too strong for me and counters the realism.
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So what are you saying, that after all the hoopla about Neon being a project to help developers make the most of Cell, the only difference between the PC and 360 version and the PS3 version is going to be the Graphics API behind the GameEngine API?
You don't understand how it worked last time - support and drivers for the Logitech FF wheel were built into the game, not into the PS2, and that was something that they could only do together with Logitech (who by the way made that pretty easy, which is understandable because they want to sell their wheels). So from day one, Codemasters' racing games supported FF wheels, the Driving Force series in particular, and the latest Racing Driver even supports the 900 degree mode of the DF Pro.
So yes, I'm making the assumption that Codemasters will support wheels again this time.
Sorry, but I take issue with that. I own an MS console, so it's a bit hard to be against it. I'm a racing fan who likes wheels, however, and it seems more that MS is against me owning an MS console, than I am myself.
The only question, really, is: does it look better, and is Neon successful in leveraging the Cell to the point that it makes a difference. It will then be up to the consumer to decide what he thinks is more important. Decisions like these aren't made in isolation, is all I have been saying, and I've been perfectly clear and honest about the context of my purchasing decisions, and still played along with your hypothetical game.
I have been *very* honest about what features in the PS3 appeal to me. I have also made clear what I think the downsides of the PC are. I can name a few benefits, but the truths is, you'd have to name the benefits that rigging up my PC to 'more than PS3 gaming spec' are, in isolation of already having a PC that can do all the other things that I require from a PC. The only thing my PC can't do, is play the latest games. In fact, I'm getting discarded PCs from work, invariably 3 years old, and they always suffice, *except* for games. But it's precisely for games that I would have to spend a significant amount of money. I work in IT, and frankly, PC games are just too much like work, and its too expensive to keep the PC able to run decent games. The last PC I bought myself and built has a AMD XP 1800+ with 256mb and the last thing I did was upgrade it with a Radion 9600 Pro. And the thing makes an ffing noise, even after I removed two fans (redundant since I've stopped playing games). Otherwise it's a fine machine, but it has certainly also helped appreciate the PS3's design.
Anyway, we were discussing the relative merit of PC version of this game versus the PS3 version, and I have said my piece. Shall we return to this discussion once both versions are out?
What I am saying is that it will look and play the same on all platforms.
You seem to be under the impression that this is a highly optimized PS3 game ported to the other systems, rather than a multiplatform game that had to resort to Neon to get the PS3 version working the same as their 360 and PC versions.
Well, at least you finally admit it's just an assumption on your part.
Funny you say that. I've owned 3 Nintendo consoles so far, and I bet you'll have a hard time finding someone here who doesn't think I'm against Nintendo.
And MS is releasing a Force Feedback wheel. One that does rumble and force feedback at the same time, using seperate motors. That's something even Logitech hasn't done. So based on that, please explain why you think they are against you owning a 360.
Or is the truth closer to you just don't want to buy Microsoft's stuff?
Yes, that is the question. Is it a highly customized PS3 game, or is it a multiplatform title that took some extra work to get up and running on the PS3 at the same levels as the PC and 360 versions?
Considering Chesire's comments...
"but nothing really fulfilled our requirements – specifically for the PS3, anyway.â€
My money is on the latter. Especially considering the Colin McRae games have always had their best sales on the PC, not on consoles.
As for the cost debate, it's really simple. Use the same standard for all systems and leave your own personal bias at the door. Either compare the cost of the base system plus game (Bare minimum required to play the game) or compare the total hardware functionality and costs with complete disregard to the game.
But stop with the "pick and choose" method of justifying your response. I realize it is hard to justify that PS3 price tag, but trying to bring up such totally unrelated functions such as the inclusion of Linux or a browser in a thread specifically about DIRT and nothing else just shows how weak your defense is.
mckmas8808
Legend
Why are you just making stuff up? We know where the engine started at. It started from PSSG. Something SCEE devs created and is mulitplatform, but custimized for the PS3. Again why make stuff up?
Yes, why make stuff up? The game design was started for all versions simultaneously and they only went with PSSG when their other options failed to deliver what they wanted on the PS3.
Or, to use their own words....
I don't see any mention of them having troubles finding solutions for the PC or 360 versions that fulfilled their requirements, do you? It was specifically the PS3 version that made them take such steps.
Why make stuff up?
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Gradthrawn
Veteran
I'm not sure about this, but I do believe MS sold their stock in Immersion back almost immediately after everything was finalized. The sale of the stock actually recouping much (if not all) of what they paid out in the settlement. I'm positive I've read that somewhere. I don't, however, have confirmation of that (or the original link). I'll have to see what I can dig up.
Not that this is relevant to the discussion or your point, but I see the point about MS owning stock in Immersion quite a bit, and I have reason to believe that is not currently the case.
You are correct. MS no longer owns any stock in Immersion.
However, should Sony lose their last appeal and Immersion wins then Immersion has to pay MS a large sum of money due to a loan of sorts that MS made to them. $15 Million is the minimum.
All relevent info can be found in page 68 of Immersion's last annual report.
http://immr.client.shareholder.com/downloads/IMMR2005_AnnualReport.pdf
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