DirectX9 Beta3 released

[Althornin]

]

If you are reading comprehension impaired, find someone to help you with that problem.

The terminology in AS FAR AS I'M AWARE is commonly used within the context of there not being any regulated (or otherwise) and/or alternative explanation related to the subject matter thereing. ergo, As far as I'm aware, you're a frigging idiot. See how its used? Another example, As far as I can tell, you're just a frigging idiot who doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. See that usage?

All i see is unessesary rudeness.
That kind of shit isnt welcome here.
Do you get it yet?
Or are you reading comprehension impaired?
And a little FYI - everyone here isnt "fanboi's" or fanATIcs, even when they disagree with you!!!

 

[JohnH]

Can anyone remember what this thread was about originally ?

Hidden away in there this thread has some interresting stuff, can people please stop the sniping, it makes a relevant discussion a very boring/tedious read.

John.

 

[Bigus Dickus]

Shooting from the hip is not a character flaw. An unbounded ego is.

 

[Derek Smart [3000AD]]

]No. Because knowing the down time it would cause me, I'm usually damn sure before I start writing emails. Unlike the shoot from the hip attitude that most here have, I don't have that particular character flaw - most especially when it comes to development.

Rubbish. Then please explain how you contradict yourself constantly? Like your comment about IHVs not working around game bugs, after you stated that ATi had put in a Zbias clamp because of your program.

The D3D spec states that Zbias is a value from 0 (no bias) to 16. There shouldn't be a need for IHVs to put checks in their code to make sure applications are using values in that range. But then you twist things and act like ATi should have had that check all along. What a hypocrite.

-FUDie

First of all tweetie, for someone who has had more attack posts deleted by admins more than anyone else here, I wonder why you even bother posting. Haven't you noticed that hardly anyone even acknowledges your posts, let alone respond to them? I'd take a hint if I were you. But then again, I'm not you. Thank God for that.

This will be my LAST post to you and it isn't even for your benefit. As such, I'll make it simple for you - but feel free to carry on twisting and distorting the issue because you think it irks me. Fact is, it doesn't. There're a fine line between wanton stupidity and sheer ignorance.

1. ATI didn't put a ZBIAS clamp in their driver because of my game specifically. They put it in because it should be clamped, much like a bunch of other api values and done by other video card drivers.
   
2. Apart from that, that value is NOT even in the game and never made it into a shipping game. The final game was released on 11/01 and the E1 demo (DX7) was released on 03/01. But pretend as if you didn't know any of this from the previous post detailing it.
   
3. The accidental ZBIAS of 50 (instead of 5) had ZERO adverse affect on the code and indeed the drivers. In fact, they only discovered it because OpenGL Guy (?) decided he was going to go run a demo released in March 01, when in fact I clearly told him in PM that he needed the full game (of which ATI have several copies) or the more recent DX8 compliant, E2 demo.
   
4. I was the one who suggested that they clamp those values like other drivers do. Even though it made no difference whatsoever to my game or ANY OTHER GAME, it is just the proper method because given the nature of the beast [drivers], you never know what an out of range value would resolve to one time or another. It just so happens that the ATI drivers just accepted the value and treated it as it were a value of 16 or 17 (out of range) and with the proper op code (since the 50 that was intended to be 5, was still higher than the 4 of the previous setting it was overriding).

The only person who contradicts himself here and distorts the facts, is you and others like you. It just burns your a$$ that people don't buy into your stupid nonsense. All you can do is attack and snipe without A SINGLE SHRED of credibility, influence or knowledge about any knowledge based topic here. I just pulled up all your posts in your profile and this sentiment pretty much holds true. You're a classic example of people who roam forums looking for people to attack and vent on, even when there is hardly a reason and/or cause. Then again, you just manufacture them (e.g. this ZBIAS issue) as you see fit.

 

[DemoCoder]

Excessive parameter validation, clamping, and sanity checks can be a drag on performance. I don't think a 3D driver should be doing any of this unless it was going to bring down the OS, expose a security hole, or if there was some expected benefit from doing so.

Doing it in the app and not in the driver even allows an optimizing compiler to remove many of them. If you're relying on the driver to sanity checking for you, I think you're writing bad code. But we all know that you are the world's best programmer, with the best design, style, and architecture, and never architect bad code.

 

[Derek Smart [3000AD]]

If you're relying on the driver to sanity checking for you, I think you're writing bad code.

Where was this ever implied? Oh wait!! Don't bother answering, since we already know you just made that up.

 

[crystalcube]

]

If you're relying on the driver to sanity checking for you, I think you're writing bad code.

Where was this ever implied? Oh wait!! Don't bother answering, since we already know you just made that up.

If you are not implying that ...then are you implying that the Accidental ZBIAS of 50 in YOUR code was actually a BUG in YOUR code, which might have been causing some problem all along ?

 

[IT]

Actually, I think D3D pretty much serializes the calls to the driver (if I remember correctly when I was talking to a guy from NVidia).

So maybe D3D should be doing the checking in debug mode and just let'r rip in release mode.

 

[FUDie]

]First of all tweetie, for someone who has had more attack posts deleted by admins more than anyone else here, I wonder why you even bother posting. Haven't you noticed that hardly anyone even acknowledges your posts, let alone respond to them? I'd take a hint if I were you. But then again, I'm not you. Thank God for that.

Oh ow, that really hurt Why do I bother posting? Because I'll never backdown. I will stand by my guns. blah blah blah Sound familiar? Don't get your knickers in a twist.

There're a fine line between wanton stupidity and sheer ignorance.

Unfortunately, you never learned the difference.

ATI didn't put a ZBIAS clamp in their driver because of my game specifically. They put it in because it should be clamped, much like a bunch of other api values and done by other video card drivers.

Please show in the DDK spec where is says that the driver is to clamp Zbias values.

Apart from that, that value is NOT even in the game and never made it into a shipping game. The final game was released on 11/01 and the E1 demo (DX7) was released on 03/01. But pretend as if you didn't know any of this from the previous post detailing it.

Your demo didn't ship? Weird, I thought it was available for download.

The accidental ZBIAS of 50 (instead of 5) had ZERO adverse affect on the code and indeed the drivers. In fact, they only discovered it because OpenGL Guy (?) decided he was going to go run a demo released in March 01, when in fact I clearly told him in PM that he needed the full game (of which ATI have several copies) or the more recent DX8 compliant, E2 demo.

Oh, now it's OpenGL guy's fault for finding the bug in your code.

I was the one who suggested that they clamp those values like other drivers do.

I didn't read that in the email you posted. What it said was that the engineer added code to clamp the values because your program was giving values out of range .

Even though it made no difference whatsoever to my game or ANY OTHER GAME, it is just the proper method because given the nature of the beast [drivers], you never know what an out of range value would resolve to one time or another.

You must mean because of the nature of sh*tty applications.

It just so happens that the ATI drivers just accepted the value and treated it as it were a value of 16 or 17 (out of range) and with the proper op code (since the 50 that was intended to be 5, was still higher than the 4 of the previous setting it was overriding).

Where did you learn that ATi's driver was treating it as 16 or 17? I didn't read that in the email you posted, either.

The only person who contradicts himself here and distorts the facts, is you and others like you.

You never replied to my posts showing how you contradict yourself constantly. Please show me one time when I have contradicted myself.

Derek, you never contradict yourself? How about you saying that you accept full responsibility for the bugs that shipped in your game... then the next sentence stating that 80% of the bugs weren't yours. That doesn't sound like full responsibility. That's called passing the buck.

All you can do is attack and snipe without A SINGLE SHRED of credibility, influence or knowledge about any knowledge based topic here.

You don't know a single thing about me or what I do. You are still under the delusion that you are God's gift to game programming. The way you see it, if someone posts anonymously, then they must not know a thing. The fact is, I have no reason to prove myself to you or anybody else. If my posts get deleted, it doesn't matter to me.

But what do I know? I know that Zbias ranges from 0 to 16. I know that ATi added code to their driver because of your program. Sounds like these bits of knowledge are painful to you because you are still in denial.

Then again, you just manufacture them (e.g. this ZBIAS issue) as you see fit.

I didn't manufacture the bug in your code. Dear Lord! Everyone is to blame but Derek!

It's great that Derek has time to respond to so many posts. But then I wonder why he doesn't have time to try the suggestions that ATi devrel made. Then I wonder how a struggling game developer (I use the term loosely) has so much time to post in forums. Then I add it all up and realize why he's a struggling "game developer".

Personally, I think Derek is a some sort of pathological liar. Take his post "When did I cuss?", for example. Or perhaps he's got multiple personality disorder. He probably deserves our pity instead of our insults... but what the f*ck: This is much more fun!

-FUDie

 

[Simon F]

Would you guys please stop baiting Derek?

As JohnH said, there were some interesting discussions buried in this noise and it's getting harder to locate under the mountain of petty squabbling.

 

[Dave Baumann]

]Yeah, and it still has W-Buffer support. Contrary to what some were saying that MS had removed it. I countered that in fact, they hadn't.

Lock Thread!! LOCK THREAD!!

Sigh. How unfortunatly prophetic.