Eh. Just look at the feature(s) present. Hawaii is 1.1 anyway.
DirectX 12: The future of it within the console gaming space (specifically the XB1)
- Thread starter Shortbread
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Eh. Just look at the feature(s) present. Hawaii is 1.1 anyway.
That doesn't tell anything about the console hardware. These feature sets are software-based (unless stated otherwise).
On the other hand even 12.1 does not include tier 3 bindless, guess why.
We've long been on the discussion that from a profile perspective PS4 matched Pitcairn, Xbox matched Bonaire. If I were to make a correction to my previous post, 280X is Tahiti, 270X is pitcairn.
If that is up for debate, I don't think it shouldn't be this particular thread, because likely that will lead into a lot of discussion points that aren't DX12 related. There are obviously enough points that can be made that both are customized in such a way that we cannot define which family they belong to. Granted the GCN categorizations are based upon functional blocks IIRC (edit: and changes to the ISA - which is granted probably better classifier). So honestly it's a debate I'm not prepared to get into as I don't have my ducks lined up to really discuss it - but simple profiling for me came from 20 CUs - 2 redundant to 18 CU + 32 ROPs = PS4. A bit basic as a definition, I get it
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The obviously simple way to prove whether PS4 is FL12_0 (not like it really matters), is to see if PS4 is capable of Tier 2 tiled resources. MJP put the difference into light between Tier 1 and Tier 2 and AMDs PRT here from a much earlier thread (this thread got me to sign up to B3D cause it was so awesome!) that was a large discussion over Tier levels for both hardware and the consoles. https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/...ats-the-difference.54781/page-13#post-1757496
This is MJPs blog on it: https://mynameismjp.wordpress.com/2013/09/06/dx11-2-tiled-resources/
If that is up for debate, I don't think it shouldn't be this particular thread, because likely that will lead into a lot of discussion points that aren't DX12 related. There are obviously enough points that can be made that both are customized in such a way that we cannot define which family they belong to. Granted the GCN categorizations are based upon functional blocks IIRC (edit: and changes to the ISA - which is granted probably better classifier). So honestly it's a debate I'm not prepared to get into as I don't have my ducks lined up to really discuss it - but simple profiling for me came from 20 CUs - 2 redundant to 18 CU + 32 ROPs = PS4. A bit basic as a definition, I get it
.The obviously simple way to prove whether PS4 is FL12_0 (not like it really matters), is to see if PS4 is capable of Tier 2 tiled resources. MJP put the difference into light between Tier 1 and Tier 2 and AMDs PRT here from a much earlier thread (this thread got me to sign up to B3D cause it was so awesome!) that was a large discussion over Tier levels for both hardware and the consoles. https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/...ats-the-difference.54781/page-13#post-1757496
This is MJPs blog on it: https://mynameismjp.wordpress.com/2013/09/06/dx11-2-tiled-resources/
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Feature levels are always hardware based when it comes to classification. Every feature can be emulated by WARP.
We've long been on the discussion that from a profile perspective PS4 matched Pitcairn, Xbox matched Bonaire. If I were to make a correction to my previous post, 280X is Tahiti, 270X is pitcairn.
If that is up for debate, I don't think it shouldn't be this particular thread, because likely that will lead into a lot of discussion points that aren't DX12 related. There are obviously enough points that can be made that both are customized in such a way that we cannot define which family they belong to. Granted the GCN categorizations are based upon functional blocks IIRC (edit: and changes to the ISA - which is granted probably better classifier). So honestly it's a debate I'm not prepared to get into as I don't have my ducks lined up to really discuss it - but simple profiling for me came from 20 CUs - 2 redundant to 18 CU + 32 ROPs = PS4. A bit basic as a definition, I get it
The obviously simple way to prove whether PS4 is FL12_0 (not like it really matters), is to see if PS4 is capable of Tier 2 tiled resources. MJP put the difference into light between Tier 1 and Tier 2 and AMDs PRT here from a much earlier thread (this thread got me to sign up to B3D cause it was so awesome!) that was a large discussion over Tier levels for both hardware and the consoles. https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/...ats-the-difference.54781/page-13#post-1757496
This is MJPs blog on it: https://mynameismjp.wordpress.com/2013/09/06/dx11-2-tiled-resources/
PS4 has the TrueAudio DSP's as well so I'd say it's likely to be 1.1.
Yes; The True Audio and the 8 ACEs, plus there are likely some changes to the ISA to support the type of HUMA that PS4 is running - but to really settle it, it would be nice to get a real confirm. Whether there is an impact to PS4 whether it does or does not - I'm leaning towards does not. We've barely seen games that leverage Tiled Resources and sebbbi has mentioned multiple times the type of restrictions it faces.
How would we get confirmation? It's not like the documentation is going to say, "Liverpool GPU is GCN 1.1". And if one machine can't handle TR as well as the other(s), isn't there the possibility devs just wouldn't to the higher standard and use the lowest functional code, meaning no difference between machines to compare?
Likely time will reveal all things. We had to wait a long time to find out that XO was FL12_0 confirmed, but I think it's safe to say most people expected to be.
As for comparing the feature, I think it's an impossible avenue to venture down. Tier 2 can be emulated on tier 1, so whether the hardware supported it or not it would still run the same but at some performance penalties as opposed to having it in hardware.
If we could obtain some documentation on the ISA of PS4 perhaps you can compare it to that of GCN1.1 documentation
As for comparing the feature, I think it's an impossible avenue to venture down. Tier 2 can be emulated on tier 1, so whether the hardware supported it or not it would still run the same but at some performance penalties as opposed to having it in hardware.
If we could obtain some documentation on the ISA of PS4 perhaps you can compare it to that of GCN1.1 documentation
We know for GPGPU stuff the PS4 architecture is equivalent to Kaveri...
From Vgleaks leak of the documentation we know Liverpool architecture has better cache architecture than GCN.
Metal_Spirit
Regular
Every GCN "generation" except 1.0 can do tier 2, obviously PS4's GPU could too if they had DX platform on the console
senis_kenis
Newcomer
TR tier 2 implies hardware capabilities not API, DX or GNM only exposing it.
Metal_Spirit
Regular
Pretty sure that same picture was used in the 7970 PRT thing in 2011.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5261/amd-radeon-hd-7970-review/6
Yeah:
http://images.anandtech.com/doci/5261/PRT1_575px.jpg
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5261/amd-radeon-hd-7970-review/6
Yeah:
http://images.anandtech.com/doci/5261/PRT1_575px.jpg
Metal_Spirit
Regular
It was...
But the above one is from the PS4 presentation at GDC 2013!
This makes me believe on a full Tier 2 support by hardware!
And that´s only logical since PS4 has True Audio and a GCN 1.1 compute structure!
And on the 7970 presentation, were the image was shown, Tier 2 was the new thing.
But the above one is from the PS4 presentation at GDC 2013!
This makes me believe on a full Tier 2 support by hardware!
And that´s only logical since PS4 has True Audio and a GCN 1.1 compute structure!
And on the 7970 presentation, were the image was shown, Tier 2 was the new thing.
HD 7970 supports Tier 1, not Tier 2.
The tiers are DX concept to begin with, nothing to do with PS4. But yes, the PS4's GPU is most likely GCN 1.1 and would support Tier 2 if it had DX platform.
(Yes, it still supports the feature in whatever APIs are used, but the Tier-talk should stop as it's only DX related)
Don't forget bloom. Truly the new "piss filters" of this gen (among others effects...) and they will be remembered as such.
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