Back into the PC Master Race. It was never a total absence but still.

Discussion in 'PC Hardware, Software and Displays' started by Cyan, May 5, 2017.

  1. Cyan

    Cyan orange
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    In the late 90s, well, more concretely in September 1995, I had my first ever PC --had no money to get it myself but was at the wrong time in the wrong place, a car hit me and lost my spleen, gave the insurance money to my parents and asked them to keep some of it to buy a PC, which they agreed to.

    It was a monster PC at the time. A Pentium 100, with 32MB of RAM, SoundBlaster AWE32 -fine sound overall and the MIDI sound was very good then-, a printer, a CRT screen, a MIDI gamepad, etc. Only the VGA card was a true lackluster --thankfully I got a Monster 3D some time after.

    I always was into the PC, but when it comes to PC Gaming when I got the Xbox in December 2004, I started thinking of myself as a console gamer.

    Bought the Xbox 360 and it was such a bang for the buck console...like a Neo Geo 2, I couldn't be happier. Matching those specs on PC wasn't easy in late 2005.

    Still never left the PC. Most of my computers were laptops and I used them for daily tasks of course. PC games like Age of Empires 2 and similar games were a blast to play on those laptops.

    Also a few months ago I purchased a new laptop. I wanted something very quiet, fanless and low power consumption. Got one with a Celeron 1.6GHz whose power consumption is 6W, it's 2 in 1 -tablet and PC-, it has a 11'6" screen, and I was very happy with it.

    Performance is bad but ran a few games decently enough. However the screen is too small and my eyes suffer -got a double vision disruption from it-. Plus things like programming are slow on it.

    Given the fact that I enjoy making things myself and spent many hours in front of a computer and I favour a machine that does all, I decided to take the plunge and buy a new PC.

    One that can be productive and wont slow me down and also can perform at 1080p 60fps when relaxing playing games. So I got... -shall write that in the post below, 'cos I don't want to write a thesis in this one.
     
    #1 Cyan, May 5, 2017
    Last edited: May 5, 2017
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  2. Cyan

    Cyan orange
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    The idea is having a single platform to focus my free time on one, and I can use the PC all the time for that --creating, programming, internet, playing games in between with my PC gamer friends or alone but sharing experiences with them, etc.

    My goal was set to have a productive PC that won't slow me down and play games at 1080p 60fps at ultra settings on basically any game, without going over budget. I also love AMD and wanted to go all AMD when I could so I've been patient and got this:

    AMD Ryzen 5 1500X 3.5GHZ (CPU)
    MSI Radeon RX 570 Armor 4G OC 4GB GDDR5 (GPU)
    MSI B350M Gaming Pro (Motherboard)
    Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 PC4-25600 8GB 2x4GB CL16 (RAM) (could go with 16GB of slower DDR4 but I remember a Digital Foundry article on the Intel 6600k where they mentioned that overclocking the CPU was less important than having a faster DDR4, so I went with 3200MHz DDR4, max supported by the mobo, instead of 16GB)
    Toshiba DT01ACA100 1TB 7200rpm (Hard drive, SSD later, larger HD later too)
    Tacens Mars Gaming MC0 (Box)
    Corsair VS450 450W VS Series 80 Plus (Power supply)

    747.07€ total (assembly + Paypal expenses included)

    Benchmarks, stable 1080p 60 fps is realistic enough:



     
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  3. Davros

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    Welcome back to the Glorious P.C Gaming Master Race
    Be aware you will now be totally irresistible to hot women, it takes a little while to get used to
    [​IMG]
     
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  4. digitalwanderer

    digitalwanderer Dangerously Mirthful
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    Even with my current computer barely running, it STILL games better than a console can!

    Welcome back, enjoy and luxuriate. :cool2:
     
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  5. Entropy

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    Welcome back into the fold. :-D
    Steam, GoG and so on will ensure that you have funds when the inevitable upgrade bug strikes!
    Seriously, not being stuck inside the walled console gardens, and being able to tweak settings to always ensure responsive game play is far and away worth the price of admission.

    Which, once you add OS to your box, is admittedly a ways up vs. consoles. Still, if the only enticement MS/Sony can offer to lure people into their theme parks is low entrance fees (but inside the popcorn and icecream is Really Expensive), then your choice is obvious if the funds can be raised.
     
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  6. ToTTenTranz

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    Did you already purchase the hardware or are you taking suggestions?
     
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  7. Cyan

    Cyan orange
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    :lol2::lol2:the pickup line could be "Hey baby, has anyone ever put you on all 4k?".

    Thanks. As a console gamer in the few past years, you can notice there was some kind of inferiority complex. PC is much varied and rich.

    Thanks! I think little tears will come out when I have it at home 'cos it's going to remind me the enthusiasm and happiness of my first computer and it's been like 12 years without a PC desktop of mine. I remember my best childhood friend shaking with envy when I got my 1st PC in 1995. He had a PS1. Prices weren't comparable -his console had cost like 400€, much less than my PC-, but the PC was always a different beast.

    The hardware is purchased, should be here early next week, but I am still taking suggestions, so if you have a suggestion it'd be welcome.
     
    #7 Cyan, May 5, 2017
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  8. ToTTenTranz

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    I think the 50% more CPU cores/threads are well worth the $30 difference in the long run. If I really couldn't go with the 1600 then I think I'd go with the cheaper 1400 and save some money.
    All the Ryzen CPUs are multiplier unlocked, so chances are you can clock a 1400 almost as well as you would overclock a 1500X.
    The biggest difference with the X models is the XFR, but unless you're using an expensive cooling solution then it's not doing much.

    This is, of course, assuming you're a power user willing to overclock even if it's just a little bit. Otherwise the price difference for the 1500X may be worth it.


    As for the graphics card, I think going the extra mile for 8GB is worth it for a mid-end graphics card in 2017. Unless you got that RX570 for a great deal (like this one for $150 some days ago), then the difference of ~$40 for twice the VRAM should also be worth it, even more if you end up with a full Polaris 10 chip.
    It's a shame that the RX500 launch screwed up the great prices that were around for the RX400 series, but maybe you can still find a good deal for a RX480 8GB somewhere.
    Remember all these cards now support VSR at least up to 4K, so 1080p doesn't have to be your limit even if you're using a 1080p TV.


    Regarding the RAM, 8GB total system RAM is really, really low for today's standards. Almost all games are asking for 16GB recommended and 8GB as bare minimum.
    Plus, I don't know the context of that statement from DF, but high RAM clocks get really small returns. Except for some odd ducks (an early release of Fallout 4 I think?), there's practically no difference between DDR4 2133 and 3200 in games unless you're using an integrated GPU.
    You're much better off getting 2*8GB 2133-2400MHz than 2*4GB 3200MHz. If you run out of system RAM (rather likely on recent games, actually) Windows will start using swap disk (mass storage as RAM), which will create awful stuttering in games and considerably shorten the lifetime of your mass storage. And if you're using a HDD then get ready for >3-second halts during games.


    Finally, as for your priorities with the mass storage, IMO you got it backwards. It should be small SSD first and larger SSD later. And in case you need more storage, just get another SSD.
    Really though, HDDs are terrible for everything but storing music, photos and video.
     
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  9. Cyan

    Cyan orange
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    Thanks for the suggestions! Actually the 1600 -without the X- was something I missed, alas. In fact I could happily switch the 1500X for the base 1600.

    Gotta say though that the 1500X doenst have a base 1500 (without the X) version where I got it, so it probably doesn't exist?

    My plan is not to overclock the CPU. I am doubtful about what you told me... Do you mean that if my intention was not to overclock the PC that I did the right thing getting the 1500X or did you mean otherwise?

    yes, I will be using a 32" 1080p screen. As for the 8GB GPU... A friend recommended that, too. It is a 40€ extra. I was quite doubtful because it is soooo tempting but this is a decision I am happy with.

    My dream is having a Vega GPU in the future so I got this one from the get go. I shall share framerates and stuff once I get it, and if you can go overboard with VSR then there is more to test.

    yup,this I know of. :( The mobo chipset eats 1GB of the memory for operations, so that's an actual amount of 7GB free RAM. I am on a budget and 16GB would be like 200€. This is actually one of the upgrades I want the most, and will likely make the jump when I find a Vega GPU I like.

    That's why I got a 7200rpm HD, to somewhat mitigate the difference while never making up for it, I know... I am on a budget, and my idea is to gradually upgrade it over time. Have the box, have an ok mobo, now it's a matter of slowly retrofitting or modifying the PC. It's somehow barebones still.

    It's quite great to be back in the PC master race stuff. The thing is that I like both the consoles and PC but there is something different about the PC, and it's always cool not to be involved in the bickering and fights over the shiny shiny graphics here and there and that my console has one tree more than yours there.

    That's the thing I always missed the most about the PC in my console days, among other things, but why it happened would be a long story.
     
  10. digitalwanderer

    digitalwanderer Dangerously Mirthful
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    I like your thinking on memory, that's why if I get a DDR4 setup I'm only gonna start with 1 8GB stick. Cheaper and leaves more upgrade path.
     
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  11. zed

    zed
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    For me a SSD would be like #1 but anyways looking at cpu/gpu.

    upgrading your GPU 25% for an extra 20 euro's would prolly be a good option, CPU not so much

    Ryzen 5 1600 $40 extra ~15% better performance
    Radeon RX 580 $20 extra ~27% better performance
     
  12. Entropy

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    If you can stretch to it financially, and of course, it is possible/desireable for you to return and exchange parts, zeds' suggestions are quite reasonable IMHO.
    On the other hand, so is the gear you already ordered. There's always a step up, and a neat thing with assembling your own box is that you can tune it to your own situation and priorities.

    So it is equally valid to just go with what will arrive on your doorstep, use it for a good while, and then IF you find it lacking in some critical aspect, do something about it when a good deal turns up. You are sitting on a 5TFlops untweaked graphics solution, and a CPU that kicks the console CPUs to hell and back. Since all the multiplatform games for the next few years will target at most XBoxOne/PS4 as a baseline, you are in a very comfortable position. Enjoy it. :)
     
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  13. Davros

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    "Trust me I do not own a floppy disc"

    ps:
    If you plan to play xp era games pick up an audigy or a x-fi for eax goodness
    pps:
    If you play racing games a forcefeedback steering wheel is worth it's weight in gold imho
    expensive but it should last you a decade.
    I'm so worried about having to be without one that I own 4
     
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  14. Cyan

    Cyan orange
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    I also want a mechanic keyboard, which imo is a must have -I have a regular USB keyboard at home. But prefer to go now a step at a time.
    the GPU is something I didnt even consider, so thanks for the suggestion. I got the RX 570 merely because of two reasons, I liked the Digital Foundry review commenting on the fact that it is an excellent 1080p 60 fps GPU, which is my goal :smile2:, and also like the number 7. But I had exactly 23€ extra in my budget because I had chosen a cooler for the CPU but the Ryzen 1500X comes bundled with an AMD official heatsink already...,sigh.

    The SSD is a priority next, and I just hope they drop in price a little, 'cos I'd like to have a 120GB SSD for the OS and another 2TB SSD in the future.

    Some time in the future I plan on adding a Ryzen 1700 -my favourite CPU as of now-, 8GB of extra RAM and a Vega card, but I am going to do that slowly.

    :mrgreen: I don't get it.

    ps: I have a SoundBlaster Live from my old PC now that you mention it, but...I don't think my mobo even has a PCI port. My Roland SD-50 hardware synthethizer is compatible with all versions of Windows from XP to 10, however the thing is how to change the IO/IRQs so the XP thinks it is an Audigy or similar.

    pps: not a priority, I have the official Xbox 360 steering wheel but I highly doubt it is compatible.
     
  15. Cyan

    Cyan orange
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    my budget was something along the lines of 800€ so I saved up some money that I am going to need for future enhancements. Tune in everything is part of the uniqueness of PCs. Apart from a limited budget I am not a big fan of power hungry beasts so something along the lines of Ryzen 1400 to 1700 and a modern AMD GPU was a choice -NVidia are still unbeaten in that sense, but I am a fan of AMD-.

    that sounds sooooo good and reasonable... Thanks to you for your words, really. I think I have a mobo and computer good enough to keep it for years and run games at 1080p 60 fps, even future ones -dropping shadows quality always worked wonders in my laptops, it's the same for desktop PCs, so that would be first if a game is very demanding. Consoles are good to standarise core use and they are sitting at 8 cores, so...yes... @sebbbi mentioned for instance that a dual core i3 at 4GHz runs things at the same speed than the 8 core Jaguar.
     
  16. Cyan

    Cyan orange
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    Some more personal background regarding the PC... (and mentions to consoles)

    Another one of friend who I know from the time I as a kid loved to come to my house and play on my PC with me. He once bought a game called SWAT, from Sierra, in 1997 and we installed it, had lots of fun playing it.

    This friend used to play Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo, Operation Wolf, NBA Live, Need For Speed Hot Pursuit III (he loved it so much that he stole the game from me-..etc, with me.

    Another friend of mine had the PS1 and when he first saw my PC in 1995, with all the stuff surrounding it, I remembered how he was shaking out of envy when he first saw my PC.

    My other friend preferred preferred to play with me on my PC. The PC was more varied, more rich and didn't like on the PS1 as much.

    And the guy with the PS1 got to a point where he wanted to steal my friends, and tried to convince my other friend to go play the PS1 with him.

    Sometimes he achieved his goal, but the best thing is that the friend with whom I played SWAT and other PC games, went to his house, played half an hour or 1 hour for the other guy to be happy ....

    And then he ran off to my house with an excuse, and we played all night in the weekend until he left at 6 or 7 in the morning.

    That desire of wanting to take away my friends, the rivalry between machines ... is very much a thing of console gamer inferiority complex.

    It is sad, but I never wanted to have a PlayStation 1 because of that, although I played the PS1 first and then the PS2 with that jealous guy at his home, and he had good games.
     
  17. Davros

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    Dont, waste of money check the gaming benchmarks
    (either buy it instead or upgrade to something faster)

    ps: live has no win10 drivers
     
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  18. Entropy

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    I'm with Davros on that one. You have a well researched setup arriving on your doorstep. Futzing about with small percentiles will cost a fair bit of money, and won't bring any particular happiness.
    There won't be any major developments hardware wise for AMD until the 7nm node at TSMC and Global Foundries. The combination of lithograpic improvements and architectural tweaks might produce something compelling.
     
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  19. entity279

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    Except I'm pretty sure you'd benefit from doubling the RAM.
     
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  20. digitalwanderer

    digitalwanderer Dangerously Mirthful
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    But the costs of doubling the RAM are seriously not inconsiderable, which is the point I think a lot of you are missing.

    When you're hemmed in on a budget you have to make some hard calls. Sure it could be "better for just a bit more", but somehow those all add up to it costing a whole lot more than your budget allows.

    Seriously, it is hard to keep a budget on a build! The temptation to just go a little more here and there is incredibly over-powering, but sometimes you just gotta live within your means.

    It sucks balls hard, but that's just how it is. :(
     
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