Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion Archive [2011]

[TheWretched]

Maybe this time the PC version actually uses my PC... AC2 and Brotherhood run pretty badly on my PC, no matter the settings... I can't even tell why, because neither GPU nor CPU are at all maxed out.

AC1 at least let you edit the settings via config file... 2 and Brotherhood don't allow that anymore.

 

[RDK]

What the... what the hell did you talking about? Are you sarcastic maybe... from my point of views the differences are almost ridicolous...

watch the gameplay video again and you can see for yourself .... i have AC1 and AC2 but its not bad as ACR

 

[assurdum]

watch the gameplay video again and you can see for yourself .... i have AC1 and AC2 but its not bad as ACR

AC2 has a lot more torn of tearing compared ACR on the ps3, a lot; AC1 works at 15 fps on the ps3 (& tearing... well...), I don't understand what do you talking about. 360 of course it's more steady but really the stuttering on the ps3 aren't no so more frequent of any others game released until now... be carefull watching a brief video because just shows the rilevant parts of the analysis & not the whole game. By the way, ps3 version it's not bad how can 'appears', believe me; probably it's the best AC performance wise (vysync/fps), but whether ps3 remain the prefered platform, don't worry about, or give it a chance

 

[Trejser]

I have 360 version of ACR ans it's a tearing/low fps mess, comparable to AC2 on PS3. If PS3 version is worse, then... damn. But it's no suprise, AC games always had pitiful performance on consoles.

 

[assurdum]

I have 360 version of ACR ans it's a tearing/low fps mess, comparable to AC2 on PS3. If PS3 version is worse, then... damn. But it's no suprise, AC games always had pitiful performance on consoles.

AC2 it's an another matter... by the way probably the article it has been a bit drastic & ungenerous to sort out the better version at all costs , & some video comparison can't gives a global idea in how it's turn out the ps3 version (to contrary, imho, too much attentions to the differences can mislead). I suggest to watch some walkthrough in youtube, if interested to see the ps3 version in action.

 

[Cyan]

...like RDR?:smile:

RDR has good graphics, maybe better than Skyrim at some points? but it's a 3rd person camera game which hides well its bad textures because of that advantage.

Skyrim is a 1st person camera game -with a fine 3rd person camera-, so the good, average, or bad textures are more noticeable.

 

[TheWretched]

Come on... just because the camera is some meters further away, doesn't mean it hides anything. In SEVERAL regards, the texture work in Skyrim is ABSYMAL. And that has NOTHING to do with fps or TPS camera... you can see for yourself, because Skyrim has a TPS camera built in. (and I am playing on PC, too)

 

[Cyan]

Come on... just because the camera is some meters further away, doesn't mean it hides anything. In SEVERAL regards, the texture work in Skyrim is ABSYMAL. And that has NOTHING to do with fps or TPS camera... you can see for yourself, because Skyrim has a TPS camera built in. (and I am playing on PC, too)

Well, afaik, RDR looks awesome but, even if they are less quantity-wise, some can be muddy and the remoteness of the camera is more evident.

If you play Skyrim on PC, there is a thread which is helpful just in case you want to tweak the game. Some images are certainly awe-inspiring

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1599442&postcount=481

 

[SteelOak]

Well, afaik, RDR looks awesome but, even if they are less quantity-wise, some can be muddy and the remoteness of the camera is more evident.

http://www.subinet.es/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/red-dead-redemption-1.jpg

[IMG]http://www.subinet.es/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/red-dead-redemption-2.jpg

[IMG]http://www.subinet.es/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/red-dead-redemption-3.jpg

[IMG]http://www.subinet.es/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/red-dead-redemption-5.jpg

If you play Skyrim on PC, there is a thread which is helpful just in case you want to tweak the game. Some images are certainly awe-inspiring

[url]http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1599442&postcount=481[/url][/QUOTE]

WTF is wrong with these captures ?
Why sky looks so "pixelated" and why is it so blurry,thats not how I remember it ,at all

 

[TheWretched]

JPEG...

 

[Cyan]

WTF is wrong with these captures ?
Why sky looks so "pixelated" and why is it so blurry,thats not how I remember it ,at all

Yes, as TheWretched says it may be because of compression. I didn't realize. I chose those pics because they had the Read Dead Redemption logo and were some of the first I found.

I have RDR, albeit I barely played it -I have to many games to play-, and my point was that every game has its skanky textures.

 

[assurdum]

About Saint Row3, QAA on the ps3? Not seems absolutely QAA to me, the long lines shimmering a lot... to me seems post AA, like MW3 to me appears a custom AA, msaa not caused this kind of artifact, at least not without high contrast

 

[kagemaru]

I know I'm late on this but I just now got around to reading the Skyrim and AC:R face off articles.

Regarding the Skyrim article, I'm a bit confused over this part:

Regarding object detail, there's a reduction in the complexity of trees and plant models on Sony's hardware, with branches being culled outright from trees to reduce CPU load.

Wouldn't culling be used to reduce GPU load and not CPU load? I understand that culling can also help how much geometry is being processed by the CPU, but the Cell shouldn't really have a problem with geometry in this instance, would it? Am I off here or missing something?

About Saint Row3, QAA on the ps3? Not seems absolutely QAA to me, the long lines shimmering a lot... to me seems post AA, like MW3 to me appears a custom AA, msaa not caused this kind of artifact, at least not without high contrast

If you're claiming that MW3 uses a custom AA, I don't think it does, it's supposed to be MSAA IIRC.

 

[Arwin]

Tree branches and leaves tend to use transparancy a lot (i.e. they're not all geometry). But also don't assume that every multi-platform game actually uses the Cell to help out the GPU nearly as much as you might expect.

 

[kagemaru]

Just got done reading the SR3 article and ugh at the uncapped frame rate, looks like no buy for me.

Tree branches and leaves tend to use transparancy a lot (i.e. they're not all geometry). But also don't assume that every multi-platform game actually uses the Cell to help out the GPU nearly as much as you might expect.

I understand that foliage and trees tend to use alpha tranparency effects, but again that is mostly a GPU issue unless I'm mistaken and not really something the Cell can help out with unless the game uses a software rasterizer. I only mentioned geometry since I thought the branches would be considered geometry, and not the leaves which I assume would be the transparencies. This is why I was asking if the quote I posted above was accurate or if I'm mistaken in some way.

 

[assurdum]

I know I'm late on this but I just now got around to reading the Skyrim and AC:R face off articles.

Regarding the Skyrim article, I'm a bit confused over this part:

Wouldn't culling be used to reduce GPU load and not CPU load? I understand that culling can also help how much geometry is being processed by the CPU, but the Cell shouldn't really have a problem with geometry in this instance, would it? Am I off here or missing something?



If you're claiming that MW3 uses a custom AA, I don't think it does, it's supposed to be MSAA IIRC.

I'm not claiming anything for sure, but even MSAA not appears so obvious to me... I have seen a lot of strange blurrie IQ here & there & a particular shot of MW3 showed artifact edges completely unsense for a MSAA filter; I'm tries to check on the net, but I'm not guarantee anything Back to SR 3, well in the video comparison I see more shimmering artifact in the long linear edges where in 360 lack; QAA not caused more shimmer of 2xMSAA for sure, it's the same version of 'modified' filter with the same limits.
Well, I found something, it's not the exactly scene of I'm talked, so it confirms my doubts are founded http://www.lensoftruth.com/wp-content/gallery/h2hssc_codmw3/ps3-rollover_01.jpg
http://www.lensoftruth.com/wp-content/gallery/h2hssc_codmw3/xbox-360-rollover_01.jpg
notice the difference: where in 360 shot shows the evident MSAA job, the more artifacts edges (jaggies covered appears 'transparent', 'uncoloured') in the ps3 pic remind me more to the typical post AA effect; we can see something similar in kz3 in more than an occasion...

 

[kagemaru]

I'm not claiming anything for sure, but even MSAA not appears so obvious to me... I have seen a lot of strange blurrie IQ here & there & a particular shot of MW3 showed artifact edges completely unsense for a MSAA filter; I'm tries to check on the net, but I'm not guarantee anything Back to SR 3, well in the video comparison I see more shimmering artifact in the long linear edges where in 360 lack; QAA not caused more shimmer of 2xMSAA for sure, it's the same version of 'modified' filter with the same limits.
Well, I found something, it's not the exactly scene of I'm talked, so it confirms my doubts are founded

notice the difference: where in 360 shot shows the evident MSAA job, the more artifacts edges (jaggies covered appears 'transparent', 'uncoloured') in the ps3 pic remind me more to the typical post AA effect; we can see something similar in kz3 in more than an occasion...

After watching all the vids I don't think they are using any PPAA, it just isn't displaying any of the common characteristics of the technique. Definitely QAA there as the edges in both systems are quite similar other than the slight blur in the PS3 version.

 

[assurdum]

After watching all the vids I don't think they are using any PPAA, it just isn't displaying any of the common characteristics of the technique. Definitely QAA there as the edges in both systems are quite similar other than the slight blur in the PS3 version.

Forgive me but you can explain me technically what going in those screens which I have posted then, because surely you know what going on if for you not show any kind of PPAA effect; or said me why in the SS3 video comparison at 2:24 minute the long vertical lines of the skyscraper in the background in the ps3 shimmering & on 360 not; my apologies but I need an explanation here because everyone can to differ even denyng the evidence at this point...

 

[AlNom]

PPAA doesn't cause shimmering on edges. Shimmering is just shader aliasing (bad specular/lighting model). Some PPAA's like MLAA just make it worse, some like FXAA try to mitigate it. The best evidence for PPAA is going to be an edge that's got a gradient better than 4xAA, not shimmering, which is again, just shader aliasing.

As for MW3, there can be any number of reasons why MSAA isn't showing up properly: no proper upscale of transparency effects, resolving before post-processing, no hardware gamma correction on RSX for MSAA resolves, shader aliasing... MSAA can be screwed up by a lot of things, and the more effects they pile onto the base rendering, the more likely you're going to get issues. There's nothing magical about MW3, it's just 2xMSAA.

 

[kagemaru]

Forgive me but you can explain me technically what going in those screens which I have posted then, because surely you know what going on if for you not show any kind of PPAA effect; or said me why in the SS3 video comparison at 2:24 minute the long vertical lines of the skyscraper in the background in the ps3 shimmering & on 360 not; my apologies but I need an explanation here because everyone can to differ even denyng the evidence at this point...

It looks like you posted those screens after I made my post last night.

I'm currently at work, so I'm unable to access any of these game sites since they are blocked by our filters, so I'll have to take a look at the pics when I get home.

Edit:

Or Al can just come in here and set things straight Thanks Al.