Digital Foundry Article Technical Discussion [2021]

[dobwal]

Let's call Freesync for what it is, it's simply AMD’s open standard version of VRR. There really is no outlier here. Both are using AMD hardware and both are HDMI 2.1 compliant. And for whatever reason Sony hasn't (or unwilling) provided VRR support. But then again, it could be the lame excuse which they used for not supporting 1440p/120hz panels, and possibly the same reason why for not supporting VRR (i.e., customer demand).

Freesync is just AMD solution that they allow anybody to adopt. It still proprietary like gsync. HDMI 2.1 doesn’t require VRR support so AMD PC gpu or PS5 being complaint doesn’t mean HDMI VRR is a given. Right now all AMD offers is FreeSync over HDMI. Even if the PS5 had Freesync over HDMI it would offer the same limitation as AMD current gpus.

FreeSync, gsync and hdmi VRR are all different tech targeting the same functionality. TVs have to explicitly support each of those individual techs. Right now only the Xboxes and RTX gpus support HDMI VRR.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Isn't it? Pretty sure that's been supported over HDMI since 1.3 or 1.4 in a more limited color space (422 or something like that), and fully supported in 2.0

It's not. I've done a lot of work with HDMI and have access to the technical specifications that are irritatingly only accessible to licensees. 2560x1440p is probably the most common non-standard resolution because of older/cheaper PC monitors. It's also not that common in TVs because there are so few devices that you would connect to a TV that would output that resolutions and most of the cheaper HDMI controller/firmware packages don't support it.

Found this table on Wiki. Looks like HDMi 1.3-1.4b can do 1440p@120Hz with 4:2:2, or HDMI 2.0/2.0b full.

This table shows the bandwidth of resolutions and bit depths verses the full-load bandwidth capabilities of HDMI ports and cables, not the HDMI standard. Because HDMI is a bit of a pick 'n' mix standard, during the negotiation phase of two devices connecting if both declare support for resolutions/rates/bitdepths not part of the HDMI standard you can do that.

I've done work in this area building a high-speed wired network using HDMI connections.

 

[Shortbread]

Ratchet and Clank 2016 has been updated to support 60 frames per second on PlayStation 5! It's a welcome boost for an absolutely beautiful game - and it means that the series has come full circle. Ratchet games on both PS2 and PS3 targeted 60fps before Insomniac shifted strategy to 30fps gaming instead - a situation that looks set to change for the generation ahead! Rich has the full story.

Actually started playing my free copy the other day with my son. The game is super beautiful even being a prior generation game.

 

[snc]

I checked this 60fps patch few years after finishing game and to be honest it starts to showing age.

 

[Arwin]

I agree the difference between the new game and this one is surprisingly visible ... [emoji16]

 

[Globalisateur]

I agree the difference between the new game and this one is surprisingly visible ... [emoji16]

We still haven't seen the new game at 60fps. For now this one at 60fps is impressing me more than what I watched of the next (ignoring the loading full new levels in less than 2 seconds part). I'll probably change my mind when I'll see the new one at 60fps (+RT).

 

[see colon]

It's not. I've done a lot of work with HDMI and have access to the technical specifications that are irritatingly only accessible to licensees. 2560x1440p is probably the most common non-standard resolution because of older/cheaper PC monitors. It's also not that common in TVs because there are so few devices that you would connect to a TV that would output that resolutions and most of the cheaper HDMI controller/firmware packages don't support it.

Interesting. So do devices that can output 1440p over HDMI just do so by overiding the spec, or are they falling back to DVI modes that are supported over the cable?

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Interesting. So do devices that can output 1440p over HDMI just do so by overiding the spec, or are they falling back to DVI modes that are supported over the cable?

HDMI is a weird standard because very few capabilities are standard on all devices. This is mostly caused because the standards are there to designate what a particular connector, firmware and cable combination can (not will) be supported - which is predicated mostly on total bandwidth.

When you connect two devices they go through a 'negotiation' phase where the exchange supported capabilities, from ethernet and CEC to audio formats understood and audio formats able to passthrough (to other connected equipment that does understand these formats). There is also a long table of resolutions, bit depths, refresh rates, VRR support and other things like standards of HDR. During the second phase of negotiation the two devices 'agree' which A/V formats they'll use for the A/V connection - which can be changed at any time. Among the table, if a device supports non-standard resolutions that HDMI mandate are among the list, these can just be slotted in. In the other device doesn't recognise or support them they are ignored.

HDMI is clever standard but the marketing for it is an utter failure. This has been for over a decade when you see folks with a HDMI 1.4 or HDMI 2.0 TV not understanding why it doesn't support everything that those specifications can support. It's because the specifications only mandates what data the ports and cables support.

 

[BRiT]

DF Article @ https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...berpunk-2021-patch-1-2-tested-on-all-consoles

Cyberpunk 2077 patch 1.2: big boosts for PS4 Pro but what about the other consoles?
Xbox One X and base machines still aren't good enough.

Cyberpunk 2077's 1.2 patch arrived last week, accompanied by an absolutely gigantic list of bug fixes, tweaks and upgrades. Dedicated players should see game-breaking bugs addressed, but fundamentally, has the game been fixed on consoles? Can we now recommend purchasing the title on last-gen systems? To cut to the chase, there's good news for PlayStation 4 Pro owners, but in terms of performance and stability, there's still a long, long way to go.

What the patch notes don't spell out in great detail is any particular push to optimise the experience for the PS4 and Xbox One generation of consoles, though there is a long list of engine-specific optimisations that should in theory improve the experience for all users. There are also promised improvements for the controversial temporal anti-aliasing solution, plus improved screen-space reflections. Xbox One is singled out for memory management optimisations too - but it's the streaming optimisations that caught our eye as it's this that seems to be the key for dramatic improvements on the title on PlayStation 4 Pro.

It's all about the background streaming technology - the way in which assets such as geometry and textures are brought in from storage, decompressed, then rendered on-screen. We spotted the change deployed on PS4, PS4 Pro and Xbox One, but curiously, Xbox One X doesn't seem to be much changed from version 1.1. Put simply, there's the sense that streaming perhaps runs with a lower priority than it did previously, targeting frame-rate improvements at the expense of resolving detail. Environmental assets take longer to load, pop-in is now more of an issue than it was previously. You could say that there are streaming delays, but detail does render in eventually, given time. However, in dense city spots while driving quickly, some aspects of the environment now fail to load in at all before they pass you by.

...

 

[Shortbread]

DF Article @ https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...berpunk-2021-patch-1-2-tested-on-all-consoles

Cyberpunk 2077 patch 1.2: big boosts for PS4 Pro but what about the other consoles?
Xbox One X and base machines still aren't good enough.

Cyberpunk 2077's 1.2 patch arrived last week, accompanied by an absolutely gigantic list of bug fixes, tweaks and upgrades. Dedicated players should see game-breaking bugs addressed, but fundamentally, has the game been fixed on consoles? Can we now recommend purchasing the title on last-gen systems? To cut to the chase, there's good news for PlayStation 4 Pro owners, but in terms of performance and stability, there's still a long, long way to go.

What the patch notes don't spell out in great detail is any particular push to optimise the experience for the PS4 and Xbox One generation of consoles, though there is a long list of engine-specific optimisations that should in theory improve the experience for all users. There are also promised improvements for the controversial temporal anti-aliasing solution, plus improved screen-space reflections. Xbox One is singled out for memory management optimisations too - but it's the streaming optimisations that caught our eye as it's this that seems to be the key for dramatic improvements on the title on PlayStation 4 Pro.

It's all about the background streaming technology - the way in which assets such as geometry and textures are brought in from storage, decompressed, then rendered on-screen. We spotted the change deployed on PS4, PS4 Pro and Xbox One, but curiously, Xbox One X doesn't seem to be much changed from version 1.1. Put simply, there's the sense that streaming perhaps runs with a lower priority than it did previously, targeting frame-rate improvements at the expense of resolving detail. Environmental assets take longer to load, pop-in is now more of an issue than it was previously. You could say that there are streaming delays, but detail does render in eventually, given time. However, in dense city spots while driving quickly, some aspects of the environment now fail to load in at all before they pass you by.

...

I did not know (or forgot) the Pro version was running better than X prior to this patch. Might go back and rewatch DF prior videos on CP 2077.

Anyhow, the new improvements on improving framerate (i.e., reducing asset quilty, lighting, etc.) that CDPR applied heavily to the Pro, needs to be seriously applied to the X edition. There is no way people are enjoying those moments where framerates are tanking in the teens.

 

[tuna]

I must approve of anything that disses Mike Acton!

 

[Karamazov]

so since these changes on pro automatically apply to PS5, does that version now run better too ?

 

[JPT]

so since these changes on pro automatically apply to PS5, does that version now run better too ?

I had no performance issues with PS5, except for crashes.

By that I mean, I never noticed any.

 

[Karamazov]

there are a few places where framerate dropped a bit, down to the 40s i'd say, in some markets

 

[Pete]

I must approve of anything that disses Mike Acton!

Go on....

While I’m not happy about the move to 30fps, R&C does look great on the PS4 Pro. Good enough that I’m not sure how badly IQ would be affected moving to 60fps. Their claim that people didn’t care could have been a nice way of saying the Jaguars can’t handle 60fps without spelling it out.

On a non-technical note, I tried the reboot not long after I played the PS3 remasters, and the reboot seemed to have lost a lot of charm (at least in the cutscenes). Not sure if that was dictated by movie synergy.

 

[see colon]

I did not know (or forgot) the Pro version was running better than X prior to this patch. Might go back and rewatch DF prior videos on CP 2077.

Anyhow, the new improvements on improving framerate (i.e., reducing asset quilty, lighting, etc.) that CDPR applied heavily to the Pro, needs to be seriously applied to the X edition. There is no way people are enjoying those moments where framerates are tanking in the teens.

I don't know if it's still true but PS4 consoles used to use the lower crowd density settings while Xbox consoles (even the base) used medium or high. When driving and exploring the city this has a fairly noticeable impact on performance, mostly on the CPU side. I put my old computer back together for my kid to play with, and installed CP2077 on it and it's playable, but there are areas of low performance often. It's got an AMD FX6300 overclocked to 4ghz (I think) and an r9 390. 16GB of system memory and 8GB for vram. Crowd density I think would take the game from the 40s into the 30s moving from high to low. And actually, on medium or low graphics regardless of resolution it was almost always in the 40s (not looking at the sky or anything) and almost always CPU limited.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I did not know (or forgot) the Pro version was running better than X prior to this patch. Might go back and rewatch DF prior videos on CP 2077.

Nothing about the performance of this game on last generation consoles makes a lot of sense. Why are some performance-related changes being applied to PlayStation but not Xbox? Perhaps the codebase isn't particularly uniform.

 

[tuna]

Go on....

While I’m not happy about the move to 30fps, R&C does look great on the PS4 Pro. Good enough that I’m not sure how badly IQ would be affected moving to 60fps. Their claim that people didn’t care could have been a nice way of saying the Jaguars can’t handle 60fps without spelling it out.

Mike Acton made that decision back in 2009: https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/insomniac-says-no-to-60-frames-per-second.47248/
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/insomniac-60fps-no-more

The original blog post is removed though, maybe Ted Price realized how stupid it was.

 

[Globalisateur]

Nothing about the performance of this game on last generation consoles makes a lot of sense. Why are some performance-related changes being applied to PlayStation but not Xbox? Perhaps the codebase isn't particularly uniform.

Maybe because the game is still not on Playstation store? So their priority is the PS game?

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Maybe because the game is still not on Playstation store? So their priority is the PS game?

Good point, I'd forgotten this,