did Ken let slip that PS3 will have EE+GS in it?

[fireshot]

I can't find the quote now but at the PS conference i swear he said along the lines that ps2 bc will cost us but i want it from day 1.

how much do ee+gs cost at this moment?

How would you go about implementing ps2 bc in the best way possible?

how will ps3 upscale from sd to hd when ps2 struggled at 480p. where do you think ee+gs will go to tap that extra video memory needed?

 

[London Geezer]

I can't find the quote now but at the PS conference i swear he said along the lines that ps2 bc will cost us but i want it from day 1.

Well that could be interpreted in many ways...

how much do ee+gs cost at this moment?

Not much, but added to the already ridiculously high cost of PS3, especailly now that the HDD is standard, it's too much.

How would you go about implementing ps2 bc in the best way possible?

Best way would be by including the PS2 chipset in PS3.

how will ps3 upscale from sd to hd when ps2 struggled at 480p. where do you think ee+gs will go to tap that extra video memory needed?

Struggled at 480p? When? Why? How?
PS3 will upscale using its own processors, not by using the PS2 processors, that's for sure, otherwise you'd see the same upscaling already on PS2.

 

[Titanio]

He did seem to imply the solution was more hardware-centric, but to what extent is probably anyone's guess:

It's costly in terms of hardware, but we'd rather [invest] firmly on compatibility from the beginning, rather than to have issues later on.

 

[.Melchiah.]

I can't find the quote now but at the PS conference i swear he said along the lines that ps2 bc will cost us but i want it from day 1.

Here it is.

I had posted this on another forum some time ago. It sure sounds like there could be a PS2 chip within PS3, like there was a PSone chip within PS2.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6146007.html

Aside from the new announcements, Kutaragi took some extra time to stress that SCE is serious about backward compatibility for the PS3. For those thinking the PS3's backward compatibility will work like that of Microsoft's Xbox 360, he emphasized that "the PS3 will feature backwards compatibility with PS and PS2 games from day one."

"I'm emphasizing this because, from what I hear, there are some platforms that haven't been able to completely do this," he said. "It's costly in terms of hardware, but we'd rather [invest] firmly on compatibility from the beginning, rather than to have issues later on."

That said, Kutaragi also commented that SCE is having trouble in some games that don't follow the TRC (Technical Requirement Check) guidelines provided by SCE. He said that backward compatibility isn't always possible when games use the hardware in unexpected ways, saying, "Either it's accidental or on purpose; there's actually a lot of games that don't follow the TRC." Kutaragi used today's conference to ask publishers to follow the TRC guidelines when developing games so that backward compatibility will not be an issue with future PlayStations.

EDIT: Oops, just noticed Titanio had already posted it. =/

 

[orfanotna]

Is the cell powerful enough to emulate the ps2 hardware?

 

[Vaan]

Is the cell powerful enough to emulate the ps2 hardware?

Of course, but emulating the hardware would imply NOT full compatibility.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Here it is.

I had posted this on another forum some time ago. It sure sounds like there could be a PS2 chip within PS3, like there was a PSone chip within PS2.

That doesn't necessarily mean a full EE/GS in PS3 though. It could be a matter of adding some GS like support to the GPU say, with command level compatibility, or something funky like that. If they're going to provide improvements in resolution, an actual PS2 chipset couldn't manage that. Unless these improvements are something extremely minor, my guess is there's hardware there that's not EE+GS, maybe fused into the other chipsets, or provided as an extra functional block within a chip.

 

[Platon]

Culd this have also been one fo those things that they have been working on on the RSX design, to somehow built in GS like functions or whatever into it?...

 

[jimpo]

Any effort towards backwards compatibility is just stupid. Wasted ammunition for the sake of marketing. If I want to play my old games I can use my old PS2 to do that. When I buy PS3 for the very high launch price, I definately do not do it to play my old PS2 games. If and when achieving backwards compatibility causes compromises in other areas, it is not worth doing.

 

[London Geezer]

Any effort towards backwards compatibility is just stupid. Wasted ammunition for the sake of marketing. If I want to play my old games I can use my old PS2 to do that. When I buy PS3 for the very high launch price, I definately do not do it to play my old PS2 games. If and when achieving backwards compatibility causes compromises in other areas, it is not worth doing.

That's just you. There's another 100 million people out there. Keep an open mind. Any effort towards BC is not "stupid", you just don't like the idea, which is very different.
As a matter of fact, playing some of my PS2 games in 720p really interests me and many other people.

 

[Titanio]

I disagree. It's particularly reassuring for parents later that their kids games will still work on the system, and helps guide them, if you will, toward follow-ups to systems already owned (which is exactly what Sony might want - it's a quite tangible rationale for brand loyalty). The vast majority of my time would obviously be spent with PS3 games, but it is very nice to be able to whip out an older Playstation game and play it on the new system (particularly as my older systems age and become less reliable, perhaps..).

There's also now the new opportunity this gen of downloadable games, from older generations, which reinforces the need and attraction of BC. Nintendo's doing it, and Sony would appear to be heading in the same direction. It's revenue for them (and as importantly, their partners..and a hopefully good reminder of the history of their partnership), and a great resource for us if the price is right.

 

[Shogmaster]

I still think EE+GS is inside the RSX. That's why it's 300M+ trannies while G71 is only 278M even with unneccessary PC related extras, and why it's taking this long to get done.

 

[fireshot]

Thats the one.

the final sdk ships june? so cell rsx is not complete yet?

 

[speng]

I see this as purely marketting spin.

Say, it's expensive and then you create the feeling that you are getting even more for your money when you buy a PS3. As if they made extra special effort to give the best backwards compatibility.

Speng

 

[Carl B]

the final sdk ships june? so cell rsx is not complete yet?

Cell and RSX are in present dev kits.

 

[fireshot]

so whats new in june?

 

[Carl B]

so whats new in june?

Well, Blu-ray for one; the current kits don't have it. Also, the software aspects of the SDK will be a good deal more fleshed out, and there seems to be an indication that Cell and/or RSX may be a different/newer revision in that kit.

Also as far as June, yesterday Phil Harrison said that final kits would get to developers before E3, so June - although on Kutaragi's chart - may in fact be April/May. But I don't think we can know for sure on that which is correct.

 

[Npl]

so whats new in june?

BD-ROM mainly, new HDMI revision. maybe slightly changed CPU/Mem-Speed and surely alot of "manufaturing optimizations"

 

[Megadrive1988]

That's just you. There's another 100 million people out there. Keep an open mind. Any effort towards BC is not "stupid", you just don't like the idea, which is very different.
As a matter of fact, playing some of my PS2 games in 720p really interests me and many other people.

very much agreed london-boy.

I'm looking forward to playing PS2 AC4, AC5, ACZ in 720p with added AA.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I see this as purely marketting spin.

I'm starting to get really aggravated by any and all announcements being accompanied with claims of being marketting spin and 'BS' and such. It's a growing trend in this forum that contributes nothing to intelligent discussion. If a company works hard to produce a product or service and outlines their hopes in that area, someone always comes along to decry them. If a deadline or somesuch is missed, it's instantly proof that a company never intended to meet that deadline in the first place and was knowingly lying from the outset. According to some people round these parts you'd think Sony aren't even making a console, PS3 is vapourware, and Sony are just pretending they're making a console to upset MS's plans!

Companies do and will talk about their products. No-one's going to spend millions/billions on developing things only to release them announced without telling people how good they are.

'Hey Kutaragi, let's add BC for PS1 and PS2 games that even improves over the original experience.'
'Good idea, but don't tell anyone because they'll think we only put it in as a marketting ploy.'

The fact that features are being added because the company believes they add to the product's value and will attract customers is a no brainer. The fact that these benefits and features will be marketted as such is a no brainer. It would please me greatly if instead of people pointing out the obvious that features are being marketted, and instead of assuming any deadline missed or target failed is a bald-faced fib, they would just talk about what's known, the actual features, and what they do or don't do.

[/rant]